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<div><span class="586555721-08062009"><font face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="2">How about giving more weight on verification and measurement in the LEED certification process?</font></span></div>
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<div class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Tahoma" size="2">-----Original Message-----<br>
<b>From:</b> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]<b>On Behalf Of
</b>Marcus Sheffer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 08, 2009 4:45 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Harvey Bryan'; paul.hay@phcjamaica.com; Bldg-Sim<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Cost of LEED certification<br>
<br>
</font></div>
<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">On your last point I agree whole-heartedly!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Without entering that data quagmire, I suggest that we all need to do a better job of understanding building energy use, gathering more data, connecting modeled and actual performance, developing better tools,
producing more informed modelers, creating performance feedback loops for designers, developing better metrics, etc. to make sure LEED and other systems produce the right signals and improve performance.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">If anyone has any thoughts on how to improve LEED to ensure better performance feel free to pitch in and help us make it better.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Marcus Sheffer, Vice-Chair EA TAG, USGBC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">7group<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> Harvey Bryan [mailto:Harvey.Bryan@asu.edu]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 08, 2009 5:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Marcus Sheffer; paul.hay@phcjamaica.com; Bldg-Sim<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Bldg-sim] Cost of LEED certification<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Marcus and all,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">While the cost of LEED Certification is important, equally important are how well are LEED projects performing. The New Buildings Institute study (March 2008)
of 121 LEED NC v2 buildings certified through 2006 claimed “on average LEED energy use 25-30% better than the National Average.” However a number of critics of this study has emerged, many of whom used the same data that NBI used. Henry Gifford has question
the methodology used in the NBI study. The American Physical Society in their Energy Future: Think Efficiency Report as well as Joe Lstiburek has also questioned the NBI study. Now Dr. John Scofield from Oberlin has completed a detailed re-examination of the
NBI study and has found that “the NBI data shows that LEED certification has done nothing to lower building primary energy consumption and associated GHG emission.” I have attached his paper which will be presented at the International Energy Program Evaluation
Conference scheduled for Portland, OR. August 11-14, 2009. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I believe that the Bldg-Sim community needs to address this issue. Otherwise the services that we perform will become seriously questioned by the building profession.
Even if LEED buildings cost more, which I believe most building professionals and clients would accept. It is unacceptable if they can’t deliver on energy performance.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Harvey Bryan</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Harvey Bryan, Ph.D., FAIA, LEED AP</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Professor
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">School of Architecture & Landscape Architecture</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">School of Sustainability</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Arizona State University</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">P.O. Box 871605</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Tempe, AZ. 85287-1605</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Tel: (480)965-6094</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><a href="mailto:harvey.bryan@asu.edu">harvey.bryan@asu.edu</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">-----Original Message-----<br>
<b>From:</b> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Marcus Sheffer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 08, 2009 12:38 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> paul.hay@phcjamaica.com; Bldg-Sim<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Cost of LEED certification</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Paul without seeing the articles to which you refer I really can’t comment about the comparison of the studies.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Regarding cost and LEED I can offer my own personal experience on more than 100 commercial projects pursuing LEED certification – none has even come close to approaching the bottom
end of the cost range in the ACC study. I have no doubt that some projects are spending 4.5% to 11% more but frankly they are using LEED the wrong way (as a checklist of independent variables in a point hunting exercise) and the market will weed those practitioners
out over time. All things being equal LEED does add cost but it is only the measuring tool. The real question is does a high performance green building cost more? If done correctly my experience is that it does not.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">We are currently working on a school project which is borderline Platinum. It was bid last summer and came in significantly
<u>under</u> budget and attracted a $500,000 state grant. So the actual cost is less than conventional overall even without the grant. Project cost drivers are primarily a function of building type and location. Within those broad categories it is about
design choices, one can choose to focus resources on building performance or on other priorities. Project teams who choose to focus on the priorities spelled out in LEED can easily do so within the confines of a conventional project budget. The rest is just
a bit of paperwork.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">The first time that an architectural firm had to use CAD drawings instead of hand-drawn; the first time they had to comply with ADA; when major building code changes occur – all of
these things resulted in added costs. As experience is gained costs come down significantly and the same thing is happening with LEED (the ACC study indicates that this was likely to happen).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">The real answer to your question is - “it depends” – on many factors including team experience, priorities, project size, strategies, design process, etc. You really can’t assume
it costs more but if you do, it probably will.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Marcus Sheffer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">7group</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> P. Hay [mailto:phay@cwjamaica.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 08, 2009 2:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Marcus Sheffer; Bldg-Sim<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Bldg-sim] Cost of LEED certification</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Thanks for the links Marcus.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">I have scanned the Langdon document and even looked at later articles written on the topic. They agree that the Langdon study is more comprehensive but still gravitate towards the
costing provided by the American Chemistry Council. My take on the matter is that the real issue here is not whether LEED certification costs more, but how much does it cost: both in terms of time and expense.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Paul Hay</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Managing Partner</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">PAUL HAY Capital Projects</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><i><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Strategic Facility Planning and Implementation</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">15a Cassia Park Road</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Kingston 10</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Jamaica, W.I.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">tel: 1 (876) 756-0631</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">cel: 1 (876) 324-4274</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">fax: 1 (876) 756-0631</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">web: www.phcjamaica.com</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">e-mail: paul.hay@phcjamaica.com</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">profile: www.linkedin.com/in/phcjam</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">twitter: www.twitter.com/phcjam</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Marcus Sheffer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 08, 2009 11:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> paul.hay@phcjamaica.com; Bldg-Sim<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Cost of LEED certification</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Anyone’s first LEED project requires an investment of time to learn how to do it. This learning curve is somewhat steep but once you learn how to do, actually doing it takes considerably
less time. Outside soft costs (commissioning, energy modeling and LEED documentation) if you are spending a dime more for construction costs than conventional for LEED Certified or Silver then you have made an optional choice or are not properly applying
the system. Many projects attain the Gold certification level without an increase in construction costs.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">There have been several cost studies over the years than do not show that LEED requires the type of investment purported by the American Chemistry Council. Here are some links:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"><a href="http://www.cap-e.com/publications/default.cfm">http://www.cap-e.com/publications/default.cfm</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"><a href="http://www.davislangdon.com/USA/Research/ResearchFinder/2007-The-Cost-of-Green-Revisited/">http://www.davislangdon.com/USA/Research/ResearchFinder/2007-The-Cost-of-Green-Revisited/</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">The Davis Langdon study above is far more thorough and comprehensive than the much older ACC report which relies on a considerable amount of early anecdotal evidence.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">In many respects the cost of LEED comes down to what you assign to LEED as an “extra” cost. Many teams have figured out how to neutralize even the added soft costs through an integrative
design process. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Marcus Sheffer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">7group
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>P. Hay<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 08, 2009 11:36 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bldg-Sim<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] Cost of LEED certification</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">I recall someone once asked about the time needed to be spent on LEED certification. Well, I have just come across a report prepared by Northbridge Environmental Management Consultants <http://www.nbenvironmental.com>
entitled <u>Analyzing the Cost of obtaining LEED Certification</u>, which is available online at the following link:
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><a href="http://www.cleanair-coolplanet.org/for_communities/LEED_links/AnalyzingtheCostofLEED.pdf">http://www.cleanair-coolplanet.org/for_communities/LEED_links/AnalyzingtheCostofLEED.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">It indicates that the documentation takes 226 working hours on average to prepare and costs between US$8,000 - US$70,000 per project: the first project costing between US$30,000 - US$60,000.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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