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<title>Links between CFD or MZ and thermal simulations for simulating air and
temperature distributions in atria</title>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi Frederik,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>DesignBuilder CFD would allow you to come up with an EnergyPlus
multizone air flow linked thermal simulation coupled with a steady state CFD
solution. This has recently been released and is a cost-effective way of
linking the 2. If you used DesignBuilder to develop the energy model/Steady
State CFD solution carried out and then use their model export options to give
you the model upon which to then import it into a more complex transient CFD
tool should it be necessary. To some extent you could argue whether or not you
need the transient analysis as the dynamic simulations should give you the
temporal solution for the airflow and then you could look at what happens for
say peak or mean flow conditions perhaps. But I’d suggest that it might
well be worth it from what you are describing as even a well set up thermal
multizone model would do most of what you describe, but the thermal stratification
issues are going to be a sticking point for most simulation tools, both Dynamic
or CFD to some extent.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If you really wanted to see the time effects of the Solar Gain on
airflows, etc, there are many CFD tools available that would be able to do this,
obviously all the major CFD engines would do this comfortably (Airpak from Ansys
Fluent most easily I suspect with its integrated solar gain modelling tool) but
they are going to be quite expensive and there is quite a learning curve to
some of them.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Alternatively, you could use something like PyroSim, which is a
good front end for NIST that would probably be suitable. NIST does transient
analysis and is used commonly for smoke/fire analysis. It uses LES turbulence
models from memory and so would be likely to be more accurate for the sort of
stratified flows you’d get in an Atria as well. You could then set
transient boundaries based on files of data exported by the dynamic engine.
Might take a bit of work, but it should work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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color:#1F497D'>Dr Paul Carey<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Zero Energy Design Ltd<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Frederik
Vildbrad Winther (FRW)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 29 May 2009 13:17<br>
<b>To:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] Links between CFD or MZ and thermal simulations for
simulating air and temperature distributions in atria<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><span lang=DA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:black'>Hi,</span><span lang=DA> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang=DA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:black'>I am currently starting up on simulating a relatively large atrium
in Denmark (app. 55°N) with a glazed roof (sloped towards the sun - clever),
open balconies with working areas connected to the atrium, as well as a smaller
atrium with smaller openings connecting the two atria together with each other.<b>
The main focus in the simulation is first of all the air velocity and
temperature distribution in the occupied zone and on the balconies - describing
the thermal comfort as well as draft rate.</b> The next focus is on integrating
the smaller atria as a heat exchanger in winter time as well as analyzing if
this can be used for cooling in summer time, transporting the air from outside
to the biggest atrium, via the smaller atrium with little heating of the air.
The calculations I want to perform in CFD also regards simulations of the solar
gain in the biggest atrium. However simulating radiation in CFD simulations
require more computing power for bigger rooms with a lot of surfaces. Any
advice on simulating solar gain in CFD? How can this dynamic gain be simulated
in CFD? Another cool thing in this atrium would be the heat recovery of the
extracted air in the top part of the atrium.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang=DA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:black'>Simulating this in a thermal simulation software requires a lot of
luck to obtain the correct (and true) result in the first couple of
simulations. However I am thinking of integrating the results from a CFD
calculation into the thermal simulation. I am thinking of doing this as an
iterative process, integrating the results from CFD when needed in the thermal
simulations. This will probably result in at least 4 different simulations over
a whole year, giving detailed results (temperature gradient, flow between
zones, convective heat-transfer coefficients etc.) which can be used in the
thermal simulation for these 4 periods over a year. As mentioned above
simulating radiation in CFD is tough, I am thinking of leaving this calculation
in the thermal simulation.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang=DA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:black'>Another simpler setup would be the integration of a multi-zone
calculation in the thermal simulation giving a more coarse result of the main
flow route in the atrium and mixing between balconies and the atrium. However
these results could potentially give the same detailed results I am looking
for.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang=DA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:black'>Finally has any one worked on an uncertainty analysis of these
coupling methods illustrating first of all the uncertainty in the results as
well as the sensitivity in the input parameters?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang=DA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:black'>Has anyone done something like this before and what tools were
used? I have been given free hands with regards to choice of software so any
feedback on this subject will be useful. I'm really looking forward to hear
from you :-)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><b><span lang=DA style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Kind
regards</span></b><span lang=DA> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><b><span lang=DA style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Frederik
Vildbrad Winther (FRW)</span></b><span lang=DA><br>
</span><span lang=DA style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>M.Sc.,
Indoor Environments</span> <br>
<span lang=DA style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Indoor
Climate and HVAC</span> <br>
<br>
<span lang=DA style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Rambøll
Danmark A/S</span> <br>
<span lang=DA style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Teknikerbyen
31</span> <br>
<span lang=DA style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>DK-2830
Virum</span> <br>
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