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JRR wrote;<br>
<br>
Good Point !! Do you take the radiation temperature at the virtual
surface of the open window ??<br>
NO. It is the wrong answer, but now you need to know things like the
RT of an adjacent building,<br>
background sky RT, luminosity...<br>
<br>
Peter Simmonds wrote:
<blockquote
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Ah, another
can of worms. MRT is probably the
least understood and certainly the least calculated of space
thermodynamics.
ASHRAE RP 1383 was specifically set up to calculate MRT for spaces,
even having
unusual configurations. It should be ready in about 18 months or so? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">So Vikram,
with reference to your analogy,
how about this one?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Imagine a
space that is naturally
ventilated through an open window, at this certain time of the day the
occupant
is in such a position that the suns rays reach the occupant through the
open
window. What would the MRT be in the space and how would this affect
the
occupants comfort.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font color="black"
face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Peter
Simmonds. Ph.D.</span></font><font color="gray" face="Arial" size="1"><span
style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial; color: gray;"><br>
Senior Associate, Advanced Technology Group<br>
<br>
</span></font><font color="gray" face="Arial"><span
style="font-family: Arial; color: gray;">IBE Consulting Engineers</span></font><font
color="gray"><span style="color: gray;"><br>
</span></font><font color="gray" face="Arial" size="1"><span
style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial; color: gray;">14130
Riverside Drive Suite 201</span></font><font color="navy" face="Arial"
size="1"><span
style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><br>
</span></font><font color="gray" face="Arial" size="1"><span
style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial; color: gray;">Sherman
Oaks, CA 91423<br>
p: (818) 377-8220 ext. 246<br>
f: (818) 377-8230<br>
m: (818) 219-1284<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;"> Vikram Sami
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:VSami@lasarchitect.com">mailto:VSami@lasarchitect.com</a>] <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, April
21, 2009
12:02 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Peter Simmonds;
Timothy Moore;
Karen Walkerman; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> RE:
[Bldg-sim] MRT Tool</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#0025c4" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(0, 37, 196);">It’s
an
interesting conundrum that the times that MRT becomes a significant
player in
the comfort calculation is when there is an uneven radiant field (hot
or cold
window; fireplace; thermal mass wall). In such a situation, is it fair
to
average out the MRT for an entire room? Don’t your view factors change
drastically depending on your position in the room? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#0025c4" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(0, 37, 196);"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#0025c4" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(0, 37, 196);">Does
one person too
hot near the window and another person too cold on the inside equal
thermal comfort?
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#0025c4" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(0, 37, 196);"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><b><font color="black" face="Garamond"
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Sami,</span></font></b><font color="#0025c4"><span
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face="Garamond"><span style="font-family: Garamond; color: black;">LEED
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<div>
<div
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Peter Simmonds<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, April
21, 2009 1:36
PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Timothy Moore;
Karen
Walkerman; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[Bldg-sim] MRT Tool<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">I do not
think the thermal comfort tool
calculates the MRT it is a user input.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font color="black"
face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Peter
Simmonds. Ph.D.</span></font><font color="gray" face="Arial" size="1"><span
style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial; color: gray;"><br>
Senior Associate, Advanced Technology Group<br>
<br>
</span></font><font color="gray" face="Arial"><span
style="font-family: Arial; color: gray;">IBE Consulting Engineers</span></font><font
color="gray"><span style="color: gray;"><br>
</span></font><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><font
color="gray" face="Arial" size="1"><span
style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial; color: gray;">14130
Riverside Drive Suite 201</span></font></st1:address></st1:Street><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="1"><span
style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><br>
</span></font><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><font
color="gray" face="Arial" size="1"><span
style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial; color: gray;">Sherman</span></font></st1:place></st1:City><font
color="gray" face="Arial" size="1"><span
style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial; color: gray;"> Oaks, CA
91423<br>
p: (818) 377-8220 ext. 246<br>
f: (818) 377-8230<br>
m: (818) 219-1284<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font color="gray" face="Arial" size="1"><span
style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial; color: gray;">This e-mail
message, including any attachments, is for the sole use
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privileged
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is
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<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;"> Timothy Moore
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:timothy.moore@iesve.com">mailto:timothy.moore@iesve.com</a>] <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, April
21, 2009
10:00 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Karen Walkerman;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[Bldg-sim] MRT Tool</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Karen,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The
ASHRAE-55
Thermal Comfort Tool created by the UC Berkeley Center for the Built
Environment and available from ASHRAE publications (if I recall
correctly)
includes a very easy-to-use MRT calculator for rectangular rooms. It
allows for
MRT at a particular position in that room, separate surface
temperatures and
dimensions for surfaces, and also the inclusion of a “panel” or
other area within one of the walls (such as a cold/hot window, heating
panel,
etc.) that has a distinct temperature. This is part of a very handy
tool for
determining PPD, etc. based upon the typical range of human thermal
comfort
variables (clo value, activity level, air temp, MRT, humidity, air
movement).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Timothy<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t" />
</v:shapetype><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_2" o:spid="_x0000_s1026" type="#_x0000_t75"
alt="IES logo CMYK" sty
le='position:absolute;margin-left:-2.55pt;
margin-top:-43.5pt;width:44.7pt;height:43.2pt;z-index:1;visibility:visible;
mso-wrap-style:square;mso-wrap-distance-left:9pt;mso-wrap-distance-top:0;
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mso-position-horizontal:absolute;mso-position-horizontal-relative:text;
mso-position-vertical:absolute;mso-position-vertical-relative:text'>
<v:imagedata src="mailbox:///C|/Documents%20and%20Settings/JRR03/Application%20Data/Thunderbird/Profiles/oet067j7.default/Mail/pop.east.cox-2.net/Inbox?number=22403906&header=quotebody&part=1.1.2&filename=image001.jpg" o:title="IES logo CMYK" />
<w:wrap type="topAndBottom"/>
</v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><span
style="position: relative; z-index: 1; left: -4px; top: 0px; width: 60px; height: 58px;"><img
src="cid:part1.03060801.08090808@cox.net" alt="IES logo CMYK"
v:shapes="Picture_x0020_2" height="58" width="60"></span><!--[endif]--><!--[if gte vml 1]></o:wrapblock><![endif]--><br
style="" clear="all">
<b><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-weight: bold;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 0.7pt; width: 112.5pt;" valign="top"
width="150">
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><b><font color="navy"
face="Calibri" size="4"><span
style="font-size: 13pt; font-family: Calibri; color: navy; font-weight: bold;">Timothy
Moore <br>
</span></font></b><b><font color="navy" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri; color: navy; font-weight: bold;">Senior
Consultant<br>
Special Projects <o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 0.7pt; width: 169.5pt;" valign="top"
width="226">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 3pt;"><st1:City
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><font color="navy" face="Calibri"
size="1"><span
style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Calibri; color: navy;">Mobile</span></font></st1:place></st1:City><font
color="navy" face="Calibri" size="1"><span
style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Calibri; color: navy;">: 415 810
2495 <br>
Office: 415 983-0603<br>
<u><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:timothy.moore@iesve.com"><font color="navy"><span
style="color: navy;">timothy.moore@iesve.com</span></font></a></u><br>
</span></font><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.iesve.com/"><font color="navy"
size="1"><span style="font-size: 8pt; color: navy;">www.iesve.com </span></font></a></span></font><font
color="navy" face="Calibri" size="1"><span
style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Calibri; color: navy;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<tr style="page-break-inside: avoid;">
<td colspan="3" style="padding: 0.7pt; width: 331.5pt;"
valign="top" width="442">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%;"><font
color="navy" face="Calibri" size="1"><span
style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Calibri; color: navy;">**Design,
Simulate + Innovate with the <Virtual Environment>**</span></font><font
color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<tr style="page-break-inside: avoid;">
<td colspan="3" style="padding: 0.7pt; width: 331.5pt;"
valign="top" width="442">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%;"><font
color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.iesve.com/disclaimer.html"><font
color="navy" size="1"><span
style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 115%; color: navy;">Email
Disclaimer</span></font></a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Karen Walkerman<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, April
21, 2009 9:50
AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [Bldg-sim]
MRT Tool<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">Hello,<br>
<br>
Is anyone aware of a simple Mean Radiant Temperature calculation tool?
I'm looking for something that will calculate MRT for a basic
rectangular room.<br>
<br>
Thanks!<br>
<br>
--<br>
Karen<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<pre wrap="">
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