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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi all,</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I am also currently
working with IES-VE for LEED energy modeling. I am finding it very efficient to
compute the loads on the project I am working on, which is quite huge and
relatively complex in terms of geometry/envelope.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>However, it gets harder
to model the water chilling plant as required by Appendix G, and I am actually doing
this part of the modelling with my own excel calculation sheets and with DOE-2
curves. </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I was wondering; how will
this approach be received by the USGBC? Could they possibly require that the
whole modeling is carried out with a single package? Has anyone had problems
validating EA1 with part of the energy modelling being external to the
simulation tool?</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have also been thinking
of somehow using EnergyPlus or eQuest (preferably the latter) just for the water
chilling plant modeling. Has anyone ever used one of these two tools to compute
the systems energy from a cooling demand calculated in an other simulation
package?</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Mathieu Le Bourhis</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>De :</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>De la part de</span></b> Field, Kristin<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Envoyé :</span></b> jeudi 12 mars 2009
21:40<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>À :</span></b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Objet :</span></b> Re: [Bldg-sim] One
model</span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I tried out IES-VE a few
months or a year ago with some people because the potential for this type of
integration seemed very exciting. However, we found the HVAC side to be
pretty basic. For a lot of building types, there are significant savings
to be had by changing HVAC control schemes and/or configurations and using HVAC
types that were not well-represented in IES-VE the last time I saw it. It
seemed like a great interface to use if you were trying to design a building to
use minimal energy due to envelope, orientation, natural ventilation,
etc. In other words, it seems strong on the loads calculation side.
On the system use side, though, it seemed a lot more limited than DOE2 or
EnergyPlus. For that reason, I have also stuck with the multiple-tools
method. I agree with all who wrote that it would be wonderful to have one
integrated tool in the future! Rob does bring up an interesting point
about the resolution of spaces needed for daylighting vs. thermal vs.
architectural modeling. Architects especially have to be so detailed in
their models that I’ve often just ended up using the floor plans they
provided, deleting a bunch of elements out of those, and scaling wall heights
and windows. Other than that, their 3D models only serve to help me visualize
the building myself. It would be nice if we didn’t end up tripling
the effort like we all do now, but so far I don’t see a great way around
it (unless you don’t need complex system modeling – then you could
use IES-VE as discussed below).</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Kristin Field</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>CARNEY Ronan<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, March 11, 2009
10:34 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Rob Guglielmetti; Ross Harding<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Bldg-sim] One model</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Actually, I'm utilising
IES to do HVAC design, Energy Analysis, PMV calc, lighting lux design, lighting
power intensity design and natural daylight analysis all in line with the
Australian Standards and Green Star (another form of LEED) requirements. </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Although the software
costs money, I've found it to be worthwhile battling against it's flaws and it
gives us the results which we require. </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><strong><b><u><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Please note,
this is a one model approach</span></font></u></b></strong><font size=2
color=blue face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:blue'>. It's easy to start a project at CD (concept design) stage
within Google Sketchup and to utilise the freeware version of IES to do
alternate design analysis. However, it's way better if the full suite is
purchases and the model is crossed over into IES. Within IES multiple analysis
and detailed designs can be modelled quickly and with fantastic final project
results. I know, I've done it.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Also with the daylight
analysis, if you've got a detailed building with over 100000 surfaces, it's
going to take forever to do the analysis, that's my only issue with the
software. However, the software is developing multithreading facility within
it's software, therefore decreasing the time for analysis dramatically.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Should anyone want to
discuss my approaches further, and are in Brisbane, I welcome the opportunity
to meet and greet with you.</span></font></p>
<p><b><i><font size=2 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->Regards,</span></font></i></b><font
size=2><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt'><br>
<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Ronan Carney</span></i></b><br>
</span></font><font size=2 face=Complex><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Complex'>Electrical Engineer</span></font><font size=2><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt'><br>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Rob Guglielmetti<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, 12 March 2009 1:12
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Ross Harding<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Bldg-sim] One model</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Mar 11, 2009, at 6:09 PM, Ross Harding wrote:</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='webkit-text-stroke-width: -1'><font
size=1 color="#144fae" face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-AU
style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#144FAE'><span style='orphans: 2;widows: 2;
webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;
webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
webkit-text-stroke-width: 0;word-spacing:0px'>The ultimate goal for us would be
to use one model for daylight and energy models, but I haven’t found that
quite that simple as most software requires varying drawing techniques.</span></span></font></span></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Amen brother! Another issue is that while the
energy model has to include the total building -- all spaces and systems -- to
be a complete picture of the energy use, a Radiance-based daylight model does
not necessarily require all the spaces to be modeled simultaneously.
Indeed, the accuracy of the ambient calculation is directly affected by
the maximum size of the scene, and so conducting a simultaneous daylight
simulation of an entire building at an acceptably rigorous ambient resolution
can be -- is generally -- time-prohibitive.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:12.0pt'>As mentioned in a recent thread on this list, Thomas
Bleicher's "su2rad" plugin for SketchUp can export a SU model to
Radiance format and there is also an E+ plugin to allow one to use the same SU
model for E+ analysis; in theory, these three components (SketchUp, su2rad and
the E+ plugin) allow for a "single model" approach to energy and
daylight modeling. However, because the su2rad exporter wants to take the
entire model and create a single Radiance scene description, that creates the
aforementioned problem of the ambient calculation getting out of hand fairly
quickly. I suppose through intelligent layering and model structuring,
one could create a model that could be exported to Radiance in "space
components", but I'm not sure if this is compatible with the E+ plugin's
layering/model organization requirements.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:12.0pt'>- Rob Guglielmetti</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>********************************************************</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Kristin M. Field</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Engineer II - Mechanical</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Electricity, Resources & Building Systems
Integration</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>National Renewable Energy Laboratory</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
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