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I do not think that the 'modelling accuracy' argument supports the
variable reference comparison methodologies (VRCM: percent better
methodology) in front of the fixed reference comparison methodologies
(FRCM: EUI as kbtu/sf/yr). The building simulation tools we have
available nowadays are good enough to benchmark our buiding against a
standar use (schedules, TMY,...) as it is done with other equipments
(indeed calibrating the model with an existing building requieres more
dedication, but this is not the object of a FRCM). Of course they still
have innacuracies (some more than others), but these ones reflect as
well into an absolute indicator (FRCM) as into a relative indicator
(VRCM). In fact often the more energy conscious strategies, design
features or equipments are the ones that scape from the possibilities
of our modelling tools, and therefore, with a VRCM you do not cancel
those inaccuracies between numerator and denominator.<br>
On the other hand, with the VRCM you leave out of the score given to
your building important design parameters (like compacity) by canceling
them between baseline and proposed building, which can lead to the
senseless (from my point of view) situaton that a design option for a
building with higher EUI gets more LEED EAcr1 points than another
design option with less EUI. The reference HVAC you assign for each
case can also introduce distorssions as pointed out in former mails.<br>
Thats why I think that nowadays, when we are strugling to bring the
building sector (with its huge inertias to change) towards a
sustainability path with a time urgency (transiton finished in 2050
worlwide?), we can not afford to use indicators which are not oriented
directly towards this objective (like VRCM). If building simulation can
not contribute now (with its available capabilities) to this transition
(and I believe this strongly depends on adopting FRCM), then I am
afraid it will just have failed.<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
En/na Nathan Miller ha escrit:
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<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Of
course this gets into the whole debate about the absolute
accuracy of energy modeling. Appendix G makes it clear that it does not
predict
actual energy usage, which is what you would be trying to compare to if
you use
energy use intensities (ie- kbtu/sf/yr). It is much more difficult and
intensive to set up an energy model intending to show you are better
than a
real-world EUI value rather than trying to be X% better than ASHRAE
baseline. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">At
this point, given the pressure to make energy modeling more
affordable (not to spend many extra hours trying to nail down
absolutes), it
seems reasonable to me to use the percent better methodology. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Of
course we all look forward to the day when we have cheap,
easy to use tools that can actually predict total building energy
consumption,
but I’m not holding my breath. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: "Franklin Gothic Demi","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Nathan
Miller</span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Senior
Energy Engineer/Mechanical Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">direct:
206.788.4577<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">fax:
206.285.7111 </span><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Andy
hoover<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Varkie C Thomas'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Percent Energy Savings<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: navy;">The
highlighted yellow and that entire paragraph nail it for
me. It results in showing/taking the most effective steps to decrease
energy usage which should be the objective, regardless of percentage.
Percent savings is always very very subject to manipulation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: navy;">Andy
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: navy;">Andy
Hoover</span><span style="color: navy;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: navy;">Principal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: navy;">The
BEST Consultant, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: navy;">Office:
678-200-7648<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: navy;">Fax:678-827-0574<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: navy;">Cell:
678-793-1159<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: navy;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.thebestconsultant.com">www.thebestconsultant.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">
<hr align="center" size="3" width="100%"></span></div>
<p><span
style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: gray;">This
message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you
are not
the addressee or authorized to receive this information for the
addressee, you
must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message
or
information herein. If you have received this message in error, please
advise
the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank
you for
your cooperation.</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center">
<hr align="center" size="3" width="100%"></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Varkie C Thomas<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 04, 2009 11:04 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Varkie C Thomas<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Percent Energy Savings</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">I received a few
responses to
this message from outside the USA sent directly to me. Below is the
message again with some additional points in red. The sections
highlighted in yellow is from one of the responses<o:p></o:p></p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="width: 100%;" border="0"
cellpadding="0" cellspacing="3" width="100%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding: 0.75pt;">
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;"
align="center">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"> </div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Varkie
C Thomas<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 2009-03-03 18:26<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] Percent Energy Savings</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span
style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";">ASHRAE Std90 for the
baseline is already stringent and specifies the commonly used systems
& plants based on building type and size. Based on the CCGT
building, high percentage energy savings for LEED certification can be
achieved with low-rise buildings with a high exposure to floor surface
areas to locate PV panels, high but efficient glass to wall area for
day-lighting, the use of GSHP (which requires a large site area which
may not be available in city blocks), and low common energy consuming
systems in baseline and proposed which increases “percentage” energy
savings. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span
style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span
style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";">A school building is
low-rise, is low in process loads (increases % savings) and is high in
occupancy ventilation which allows for air-to-air heat recovery. It
operates only during the day increasing the impact of day-lighting. It
is closed in summer, reducing the annual cooling load and increases the
impact of solar heating during the rest of the year in cold climates.
So it is possible to achieve zero energy usage. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span
style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span
style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";">The choices are limited
in the case of inner city high-rise buildings. Today’s high-rise
office building design tries to maximize the glass percentage which
increases the impact of day-lighting. The glass could have PV
properties with a very small overall efficiency of converting light to
110V electricity. The ASHRAE Std90 baseline for Systems and Plants for
such a building is considered normal design. UFAD and other options
are not typical. The proposed envelope has to offset the 40%
Window-Wall-Ratio specified by ASHRAE. <span
style="color: rgb(192, 0, 0);">If the office building envelope is used
for a hospital or hotel, which operate 8760 hours/year, then the
percent energy savings will go down.</span> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span
style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span
style="background: yellow none repeat scroll 0%; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;">High
percent energy savings does not therefore necessarily mean a better or
optimized designed building</span><span
style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";"> in terms of the client’s
interests. <span
style="background: yellow none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;">Percent
energy savings should therefore not be the criteria for energy
efficient building design. It should be based on Energy Conservation
Measures (ECM) used for the given building that are more energy
efficient compared to ASHRAE Std90 for the given building type and size
which usually results in increased first costs.</span> The ECMs are
going to be different for different types of buildings in different
locations. If the ECM used is inappropriate, then the client pays a
price for the high percent energy savings.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(192, 0, 0);">In my
opinion the way to express
energy efficiency would be energy per unit area. Occupancy per unit
area
has to be defined for different types of buildings (office, hotel,
retail,
hospital, etc.) and energy efficiency should also take into account
location
based on HDD & CDD. Energy per Person will account for overall
energy
efficiency of buildings & transportation when designing sustainable
townships.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<pre wrap="">
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<div class="Section1">
<pre><b><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></pre>
<pre><b><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;"
lang="ES-TRAD">Xavier García Casals</span></b><span
style="font-family: Arial;" lang="ES-TRAD"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family: Arial;" lang="ES-TRAD"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span class="SpellE"><span
style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="ES-TRAD">Tel</span></span><span
style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="ES-TRAD">: (+34) 91 843 19 85<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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<pre><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="ES-TRAD"><a
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