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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=531442018-09012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Dear Dongyi,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=531442018-09012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=531442018-09012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>I assign the actual flow (gpm or m3/s) and an equivalent head that
results in the ASHRAE pump power limit. I've attached a spreadsheet which
helps do that for you more easily.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=531442018-09012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=531442018-09012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Note that I use EPlus and it assigns a fixed pump
efficiency. You'll have to figure that out for your
software.....</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><B
style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><FONT size=4>The Building Performance
Team<BR></FONT></B><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">James V. Dirkes II,
P.E., LEED AP<BR></B>1631 Acacia Drive NW<BR>Grand Rapids, MI 49504<BR>616
450 8653<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> xiao dongyi
[mailto:xiaodongyi@hotmail.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 09, 2009 10:36
AM<BR><B>To:</B> imaor@pwienergy.com; wbahnfleth@psu.edu; jvd2pe@tds.net;
bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Bldg-sim] chilled water
pump power<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Hi Itzhak,<BR> <BR>If that is the assumption used to derive the
22 W/gpm, then how should I divide it between the primary and secondary
pump?<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR> <BR>Dongyi<BR><BR>
<HR id=stopSpelling>
<BR>Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power<BR>Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009
09:55:11 -0500<BR>From: imaor@pwienergy.com<BR>To: wbahnfleth@psu.edu;
jvd2pe@tds.net; xiaodongyi@hotmail.com;
bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=EC_198584714-09012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Hello Bill</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=EC_198584714-09012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=EC_198584714-09012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>You are correct. The 22 W/GPM is <U>combined </U>Primary
and Secondary pumping. The assumption that used to derive this number is total
head of 75'.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=EC_198584714-09012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=EC_198584714-09012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Thanks</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=EC_198584714-09012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=EC_198584714-09012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Itzhak</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV align=left>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; LETTER-SPACING: 0.3pt">Itzhak Maor Ph.D., P.E.,
C.E.M</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; LETTER-SPACING: 0.3pt">
<BR><B><I>Manager, Energy Efficiency Services</I></B> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Global Workplace Solutions
<BR>Building Efficiency <SPAN style="COLOR: #5f5f5f">|</SPAN> Energy Services
</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; LETTER-SPACING: 0.3pt">Johnson Controls,
Inc.</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; LETTER-SPACING: 0.3pt"> <BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">1617 JFK Blvd., Suite 1140 <SPAN
style="COLOR: #5f5f5f">| </SPAN>Philadelphia, PA 19103 </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Tel.: (215) 241-9111 ext. 14
<SPAN style="COLOR: #5f5f5f">| </SPAN>Fax: (215) 241-0113 </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">Cell: (215)
767-4582</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue"><A
title=mailto:Colleen.T.Sarfino@jci.com><SPAN
title=mailto:Colleen.T.Sarfino@jci.com
style="COLOR: blue">Itzhak.Maor@jci.com</SPAN></A> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #5f5f5f">| </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><A
title=http://www.johnsoncontrols.com/><SPAN
title=http://www.johnsoncontrols.com/
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">www.JohnsonControls.com</SPAN></A> </SPAN><SPAN
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style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><I><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow','sans-serif'">Please
note my new email address, effective November 1st (and useable in the
interim).</SPAN></I></B><SPAN
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<DIV> </DIV><BR>
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<HR>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>William
Bahnfleth<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 08, 2009 7:52 PM<BR><B>To:</B> James
V. Dirkes II P.E.; xiaodongyi@hotmail.com;
bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water
pump power<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>I sincerely doubt it.<BR><BR>A fairly typical total pump head for
plant and distribution for a primary/secondary systems might be 100 -120
ft. (Note, I am not saying that is GOOD practice, but it is typical.
One can generally do better.)<BR><BR>Let's say that the overall efficiency of
pump, motor, and drive is ~85%.<BR><BR>If we use the common engineering
approximation HP = (Q*H)/(3960*eta_t), and given that 1 HP = 745.7 W, the
power associated with 1 gpm and 100 ft wg head is<BR><BR>W =
745.7*(1*100)/(3960*0.85) = 22.15<BR><BR>I cannot think of a reasonable scenario
under which 44 W/gpm could be construed to represent minimally acceptable
practice.<BR><BR>Bill Bahnfleth<BR><BR>At 07:14 PM 1/8/2009, James V. Dirkes
II P.E. wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite=""><FONT color=#0000ff>Good question! My
guess is that each pump may be 22W / gpm. Since they are required to use
variable speed drives (for >300T), it won't affect energy
adversely.<BR></FONT> <BR><FONT color=#0000ff>There may be an ASHRAE
clarification on this topic; have you checked with
them?<BR></FONT> <BR><BR>
<DIV align=center><FONT size=4><B>The Building Performance
Team<BR></FONT>James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP<BR></B>1631 Acacia Drive
NW<BR>Grand Rapids, MI 49504<BR>616 450 8653<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"
/><BR></DIV><BR> <BR> <BR><BR>
<HR>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[<A> mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</A>] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>xiao dongyi<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:18
PM<BR><B>To:</B> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Bldg-sim]
chilled water pump power<BR></FONT><BR>Hi,<BR> <BR>I have a question
regarding the chilled water pump power calculation in ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix
G:<BR> <BR>ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G Paragraph G3.1.3.10 requires that "The
<I>baseline building design </I>pump power shall be 22 W/gpm<I>.". </I>If the
chilled water pumping system is a primary-secondary system, how does this rule
apply? i.e. does the 22 W/gpm apply to the primary pump, secondary pump, or
both? Or, do I need to divide it between the primary and secondary
pump?<BR> <BR>Your suggestions will be greatly
appreciated.<BR> <BR>Thanks,<BR> <BR>Dongyi<BR><BR>
<HR>
Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. <A>See how it works.</A>
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<DIV>__________</DIV><BR>
<DIV>William P. Bahnfleth, PhD, PE, FASHRAE</DIV>
<DIV>Professor of Architectural Engineering and Director, Indoor Environment
Center</DIV><BR>
<DIV>Penn State / 104 Engineering Unit A / University Park, PA 16802 USA</DIV>
<DIV>voice: 814.863.2076 / fax: 814.863.4789 / e-mail:
wbahnfleth@psu.edu</DIV>
<DIV><A>http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/faculty/bahnfleth/</A> ,
<A>http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/iec</A></DIV><BR>It is better to know less than to
know so much that ain’t so. - Josh Billings<BR>
<HR>
Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. <A
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