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<p class=MsoPlainText>Dear Tianzhen,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Do you know if the report you mentioned will be made
available on internet (where/when)? Are there any major conclusions that you
can provide already, concerning the speeding up of simulations in Energy Plus?
I guess that until the whole E+ is rewritten to allow multicore processing,
your results could help everyone a lot!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Thanks in advance,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>João Pedro Santos<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><img width=196 height=170 id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:image001.jpg@01C9728A.EE3C1CA0" alt="lmit_signature"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-US>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of bldg-sim-request@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
Sent: sexta-feira, 9 de Janeiro de 2009 18:21<br>
To: bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
Subject: Bldg-sim Digest, Vol 14, Issue 7</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Send Bldg-sim mailing list submissions to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help'
to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> bldg-sim-request@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>You can reach the person managing the list at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> bldg-sim-owner@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is
more specific<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>than "Re: Contents of Bldg-sim digest..."<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Today's Topics:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 1. Re: Bldg-sim Digest, Vol 14, Issue 6 (Tianzhen
Hong)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 2. Re: EnergyPlus on multi-cpu systems (Edwin Lee)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 3. EnergyPlus on multi-cpu systems, Standard E+
Machiine (JRR)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 4. high CWLT chiller performance curves (Martin
Belusko)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 5. chilled water pump power (xiao dongyi)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 6. Re: chilled water pump power (James V. Dirkes II
P.E.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 7. Re: chilled water pump power (William Bahnfleth)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 8. Is Garage Lighting a Regulated Process Load? (Lam,
Linda)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 9. Re: chilled water pump power (James V. Dirkes II
P.E.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 10. IBPSA-USA Chicago Meeting Announcement (Ellis, Peter)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 11. Fwd: Problems in compiling the weather data files
of IBPSA<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> (M F A Ramadan)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 12. Re: chilled water pump power (Itzhak Maor)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 13. Re: Fwd: Problems in compiling the weather data
files of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> IBPSA (Crawley, Drury)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 14. Re: high CWLT chiller performance curves (Peter
Simmonds)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 15. Re: chilled water pump power (xiao dongyi)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 16. Re: chilled water pump power (Zhuolun Chen)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 17. Lab ACH Setback with Packaged Single Zone Systems
(Kendra Tupper)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 18. New Interfaces and Standard 140-2007 Testing
Reports for<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> EnergyPlus (Crawley, Drury)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 19. Re: chilled water pump power (James V. Dirkes II
P.E.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>----------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 1<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:48:18 -0800<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: Tianzhen Hong <thong@lbl.gov><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Bldg-sim Digest, Vol 14, Issue 6<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org, alexc@2rw.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID: <496674A2.5060304@lbl.gov><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
format=flowed<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Alex,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>We did an EnergyPlus run time analysis for CEC based on
E+ version 2.2. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>CEC is close to publishing the report. The report answers
most of your <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>questions.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Tianzhen<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>On 1/8/2009 12:01 PM,
bldg-sim-request@lists.onebuilding.org wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Send Bldg-sim mailing list submissions to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,
visit<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body
'help' to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> bldg-sim-request@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> You can reach the person managing the list at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> bldg-sim-owner@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it
is more specific<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> than "Re: Contents of Bldg-sim digest..."<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Today's Topics:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 1. [BLDG-SIM] EnergyPlus on multi-cpu systems
(Alex Chapin)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 2. new to eQuest, need help with varying floor
shapes<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> (Cramer Silkworth)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 3. Re: new to eQuest, need help with varying
floor shapes<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> (Aulbach, John)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 4. chillers system 8 (Elena Verani)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 5. Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums (P. Hay)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 6. FW: Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums (P.
Hay)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 7. Re: Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums (James
V. Dirkes II P.E.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 8. FW: Suspended ceilings vs. open plenums (P.
Hay)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Message: 1<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:51:44 -0500<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> From: Alex Chapin <alexc@2rw.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Subject: [Bldg-sim] [BLDG-SIM] EnergyPlus on
multi-cpu systems<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> To: "bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org"
<bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Message-ID:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <6AF9AFA739099A43B163308B4B0892A42CA0E050AF@VMBX107.ihostexchange.net><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Does anyone have recommendations on computer
performance specs for reducing the run times? When large models are run, the
lengthy run time creates an annoyance when trying to debug issues in the model
or perform parametric runs.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> My idea was to create a modeling server from a
decked out PC. The hope being that I will be able to have other non-modeling
programs running on my computer and perform the energy simulation remotely on
the modeling server. What combination of processor, RAM, Motherboard, video
card, etc. would be ideal in creating a modeling server? Could this modeling
server be set up to run more than one eQUEST or EnergyPlus type simulation at a
time?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> My personal computer currently has a dual core
processor, but I saw an email that said programs like EnergyPlus and eQUEST
will only use one of the two cores. Is there any program which can use both?
If not, would getting a higher performing single core processor be better?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Any advice on this topic would be much appreciated,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Alex Chapin, E.I.T., LEED AP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Energy Engineer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 2rw Consultants<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> T: 434-296-2116 ext. 101<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> F: 434-977-1862<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> alexc@2rw.com<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>> ------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Message: 2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 23:32:15 +0100<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> From: "Cramer Silkworth"
<silkworth@transsolar.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Subject: [Bldg-sim] new to eQuest, need help with
varying floor shapes<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> To: <bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Message-ID:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <FE872D9C4591BF44AAFD986BF73368FF032D0A28@webmail.transsolar.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Hi All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> I'm new to eQuest, testing it out to see if we like
it for some modeling<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> tasks over our current software (Trnsys). I'm trying
to model a building<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> in which every floor has a different shape. Can
someone tell me the best<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> way to approach this? Should each floor be a new
shell? For that matter,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> what is a 'shell', anyways? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Cramer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> J. Cramer Silkworth<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Transsolar Climate Engineering<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Technical consulting for energy efficiency and
environmental quality in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> buildings.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 145 Hudson Street<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Suite 402<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> New York, NY 10013<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Office: 212-219-2255<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> silkworth@transsolar.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Message: 3<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:48:08 -0800<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> From: "Aulbach, John"
<jaulbach@nexant.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] new to eQuest, need help
with varying floor<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> shapes<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> To: "Cramer Silkworth"
<silkworth@transsolar.com>,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Message-ID:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <99A2815FF4D295488E034407278B16A40276D969@sacexm01.nexant.corp><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Hi Cramer:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> I have never used TRNSYS, but I always had the
impression it was more<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> process versus whole building oriented.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> You will want to build your differently shaped
floors in the Design<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Development (DD) Wizard. The Schematic Wizard only
allow on shape. In<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> the DD Wizard, you can trace AutoCAD DWG files to
develop each floor.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> My drift on the "shell" concept is that it
is indeed a floor, where<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> there are several zones on the same level. The shell
can also be the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> floor of another building, thus the ability not only
to to different<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> floor plans in the same building, but different
buildings in the same<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> run.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Hope this gets you started.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> John R. Aulbach, PE, CEM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Project Manager<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Nexant, Inc.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 701 West Kimberly Ave., Suite 245<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> Placentia, CA 92870-6342 USA<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> Phone: 714-524-4402<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> Fax: 714-524-4407<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> email: jaulbach@nexant.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> ________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> From: bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] On
Behalf Of Cramer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Silkworth<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 2:32 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> To: bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Subject: [Bldg-sim] new to eQuest, need help with
varying floor shapes<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Hi All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> I'm new to eQuest, testing it out to see if we like
it for some modeling<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> tasks over our current software (Trnsys). I'm trying
to model a building<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> in which every floor has a different shape. Can
someone tell me the best<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> way to approach this? Should each floor be a new
shell? For that matter,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> what is a 'shell', anyways? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Cramer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> J. Cramer Silkworth<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Transsolar Climate Engineering<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Technical consulting for energy efficiency and
environmental quality in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> buildings.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 145 Hudson Street<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Suite 402<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> New York, NY 10013<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Office: 212-219-2255<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> silkworth@transsolar.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>> ------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Message: 4<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:20:35 -0000<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> From: "Elena Verani"
<everani@hilsonmoran.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Subject: [Bldg-sim] chillers system 8<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> To: <bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Message-ID:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <3BBCBF3E24390749A2059774C10007A202C40BFC@HMP107.hilson_moran.local><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> I'm modelling an office building with a floor area
of more than 240000<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> sf.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> The baseline system is system 8 VAV w/PFP boxes and
I will need 2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> equally sized centrifugal chillers.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> My question is: how do the 2 chillers interact? Both
of them working at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> half load or one working at full load and the second
one only working<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> when the first one is not enough?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> ELENA VERANI <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Sustainability Consultant - LEED AP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> HILSON MORAN<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>> ------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Message: 5<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:19:24 -0500<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> From: "P. Hay" <phay@cwjamaica.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Subject: [Bldg-sim] Suspended ceilings vs. open
plenums<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> To: "BLDG-SIM"
<bldg-sim@onebuilding.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Message-ID: <000e01c971a4$7d098180$771c8480$@com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> I recently came across a Life Cycle Analysis of
Suspended Ceilings vs. Open<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Plenums, initiated by CISCA [Ceiling and Interior
System Construction<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Association ( www.cisca.org )] which concluded that
suspended ceilings are<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> more energy efficient because they have:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> a) higher reflectances,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> b) better heat-removal from luminaires, and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> c) use lower static pressure and fan power.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> I can understand (a) and (c) but (b) leaves me
suspicious that the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> return-air plenum was not considered in this study.
As I understand it,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> return-air plenums can be defined as separate zones
from the usable spaces<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> (in this case: an office or a food store) but the
suspended ceilings are<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> adiabatic. So , other than the savings for lighting
and fan, I really don't<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> understand how there could be significant savings
for the HVAC system if the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> overall height of the rooms (plenum & usable
space) is identical, and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> cooling load of plenums are considered. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Is there something I'm missing?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Paul Hay<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Managing Partner<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> PAUL HAY Consultants<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Capital Project Planning and Management<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 15a Cassia Park Road<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Kingston 10<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> Jamaica, W.I.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> tel: 1 (876) 756-0631<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> cel: 1 (876) 324-4274<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> fax: 1 (876) 756-0631<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> web: www.phcjamaica.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> e-mail: paul.hay@phcjamaica.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>> ------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Message: 6<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:29:42 -0500<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> From: "P. Hay" <phay@cwjamaica.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Subject: [Bldg-sim] FW: Suspended ceilings vs. open
plenums<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> To: "BLDG-SIM"
<bldg-sim@onebuilding.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Message-ID:
<001c01c971a5$edd28870$c9779950$@com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> The study uses both: ducted return in open plenums
and plenum return for<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> suspended ceilings.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Paul Hay<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Managing Partner<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> PAUL HAY Consultants<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Capital Project Planning and Management<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 15a Cassia Park Road<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Kingston 10<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> Jamaica, W.I.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> tel: 1 (876) 756-0631<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> cel: 1 (876) 324-4274<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> fax: 1 (876) 756-0631<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> web: www.phcjamaica.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> e-mail: paul.hay@phcjamaica.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> From: Steve Tobin [mailto:stobin@smithboucher.com] <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:23 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> To: phay@phcjamaica.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Suspended ceilings vs. open
plenums<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Does your model include ducted return or plenum
return? If it is ducted<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> return the return air is pulled from the space and
the light heat gain is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> less load for the AHU. If you have a plenum return
the full lighting load<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> should be accounted for.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Steve Tobin<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> PROJECT ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 25501 west valley parkway<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> olathe ks 66061<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> direct 913 344.0061<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> fax 913 345.0617<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> From: bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] On
Behalf Of P. Hay<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:19 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> To: BLDG-SIM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Subject: [Bldg-sim] Suspended ceilings vs. open
plenums<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> I recently came across a Life Cycle Analysis of
Suspended Ceilings vs. Open<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Plenums, initiated by CISCA [Ceiling and Interior
System Construction<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Association ( www.cisca.org )] which concluded that
suspended ceilings are<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> more energy efficient because they have:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> a) higher reflectances,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> b) better heat-removal from luminaires, and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> c) use lower static pressure and fan power.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> I can understand (a) and (c) but (b) leaves me
suspicious that the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> return-air plenum was not considered in this study.
As I understand it,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> return-air plenums can be defined as separate zones
from the usable spaces<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> (in this case: an office or a food store) but the
suspended ceilings are<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> adiabatic. So , other than the savings for lighting
and fan, I really don't<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> understand how there could be significant savings
for the HVAC system if the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> overall height of the rooms (plenum & usable
space) is identical, and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> cooling load of plenums are considered. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Is there something I'm missing?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Paul Hay<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Managing Partner<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> PAUL HAY Consultants<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Capital Project Planning and Management<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 15a Cassia Park Road<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Kingston 10<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> Jamaica, W.I.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> tel: 1 (876) 756-0631<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> cel: 1 (876) 324-4274<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> fax: 1 (876) 756-0631<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> web: www.phcjamaica.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> e-mail: paul.hay@phcjamaica.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>> ------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Message: 7<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:40:07 -0500<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> From: "James V. Dirkes II P.E."
<jvd2pe@tds.net><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Suspended ceilings vs. open
plenums<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> To: <phay@phcjamaica.com>,
"'BLDG-SIM'" <bldg-sim@onebuilding.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Message-ID:
<AB6A3B78D7714E9CB32D4D93427ED85A@BPT><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Dear Paul,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> In theory, the return plenum is warmer than the
occupied space, so the wall<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> and, especially, roof loads do not affect the space
in the same way. This<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> will give a warmer coil entering condition and
resulting smaller coil, fan,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> duct, motor, wiring, electrical service, etc.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> The ACTUAL difference will be small and may not be
worth the additional<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> analysis and load calculations. You could argue
that a VAV system will<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> realize the benefits, since it will "see"
the space load only and reduce<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> volume to suit.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Another consideration is whether the life cycle
energy benefits outweigh the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> differential cost to install and maintain the
suspended ceiling.... I<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> suspect they do, but am uncertain re: ROI.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> The Building Performance Team<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 1631 Acacia Drive NW<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Grand Rapids, MI 49504<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 616 450 8653<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> _____ <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> From: bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] On
Behalf Of P. Hay<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:19 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> To: BLDG-SIM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Subject: [Bldg-sim] Suspended ceilings vs. open
plenums<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> I recently came across a Life Cycle Analysis of
Suspended Ceilings vs. Open<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Plenums, initiated by CISCA [Ceiling and Interior
System Construction<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Association ( www.cisca.org )] which concluded that
suspended ceilings are<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> more energy efficient because they have:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> a) higher reflectances,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> b) better heat-removal from luminaires, and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> c) use lower static pressure and fan power.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> I can understand (a) and (c) but (b) leaves me
suspicious that the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> return-air plenum was not considered in this study.
As I understand it,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> return-air plenums can be defined as separate zones
from the usable spaces<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> (in this case: an office or a food store) but the
suspended ceilings are<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> adiabatic. So , other than the savings for lighting
and fan, I really don't<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> understand how there could be significant savings
for the HVAC system if the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> overall height of the rooms (plenum & usable
space) is identical, and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> cooling load of plenums are considered. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Is there something I'm missing?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Paul Hay<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Managing Partner<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> PAUL HAY Consultants<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Capital Project Planning and Management<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 15a Cassia Park Road<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Kingston 10<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> Jamaica, W.I.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> tel: 1 (876) 756-0631<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> cel: 1 (876) 324-4274<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> fax: 1 (876) 756-0631<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> web: www.phcjamaica.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> e-mail: paul.hay@phcjamaica.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> ------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Message: 8<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 13:37:33 -0500<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> From: "P. Hay" <phay@cwjamaica.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Subject: [Bldg-sim] FW: Suspended ceilings vs. open
plenums<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> To: "BLDG-SIM"
<bldg-sim@onebuilding.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Message-ID: <003d01c971c0$2baf5460$830dfd20$@com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Thanks James,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> I'm beginning to see how there could be a
difference: especially since the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> office modeled does use a VAV system and the food
store is a single storey<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> building with 100,000 sq. ft roof. It would seem
that the roof loads have<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> the greater influence because its energy costs
savings are 30 - 40% greater<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> than the 8-storey office building with 15,000 sq.
ft. roof for four<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> locations (including Orlando), and 70% higher for
Charlotte.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> BTW, it is claimed that the life-cycle payback is
between 5 - 11 years for<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> the office, and 0.9 - 1.7 years for the food store.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Paul Hay<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Managing Partner<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> PAUL HAY Consultants<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Capital Project Planning and Management<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 15a Cassia Park Road<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Kingston 10<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> Jamaica, W.I.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> tel: 1 (876) 756-0631<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> cel: 1 (876) 324-4274<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> fax: 1 (876) 756-0631<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> web: www.phcjamaica.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> e-mail: paul.hay@phcjamaica.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> From: James V. Dirkes II P.E.
[mailto:jvd2pe@tds.net] <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:40 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> To: phay@phcjamaica.com; 'BLDG-SIM'<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] Suspended ceilings vs. open
plenums<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Dear Paul,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> In theory, the return plenum is warmer than the
occupied space, so the wall<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> and, especially, roof loads do not affect the space
in the same way. This<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> will give a warmer coil entering condition and
resulting smaller coil, fan,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> duct, motor, wiring, electrical service, etc.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> The ACTUAL difference will be small and may not be
worth the additional<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> analysis and load calculations. You could argue
that a VAV system will<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> realize the benefits, since it will "see"
the space load only and reduce<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> volume to suit.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Another consideration is whether the life cycle
energy benefits outweigh the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> differential cost to install and maintain the
suspended ceiling.... I<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> suspect they do, but am uncertain re: ROI.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> The Building Performance Team<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 1631 Acacia Drive NW<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Grand Rapids, MI 49504<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 616 450 8653<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> _____ <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> From: bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] On
Behalf Of P. Hay<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:19 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> To: BLDG-SIM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Subject: [Bldg-sim] Suspended ceilings vs. open
plenums<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> I recently came across a Life Cycle Analysis of
Suspended Ceilings vs. Open<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Plenums, initiated by CISCA [Ceiling and Interior
System Construction<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Association ( www.cisca.org )] which concluded that
suspended ceilings are<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> more energy efficient because they have:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> a) higher reflectances,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> b) better heat-removal from luminaires, and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> c) use lower static pressure and fan power.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> I can understand (a) and (c) but (b) leaves me
suspicious that the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> return-air plenum was not considered in this study.
As I understand it,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> return-air plenums can be defined as separate zones
from the usable spaces<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> (in this case: an office or a food store) but the
suspended ceilings are<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> adiabatic. So , other than the savings for lighting
and fan, I really don't<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> understand how there could be significant savings
for the HVAC system if the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> overall height of the rooms (plenum & usable
space) is identical, and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> cooling load of plenums are considered. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Is there something I'm missing?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Paul Hay<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Managing Partner<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> PAUL HAY Consultants<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Capital Project Planning and Management<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> 15a Cassia Park Road<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Kingston 10<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> Jamaica, W.I.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> tel: 1 (876) 756-0631<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> cel: 1 (876) 324-4274<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> fax: 1 (876) 756-0631<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> web: www.phcjamaica.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>> e-mail: paul.hay@phcjamaica.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> -------------- next part --------------<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> ------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Bldg-sim mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>
http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> End of Bldg-sim Digest, Vol 14, Issue 6<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> ***************************************<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 16:30:46 -0600<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: "Edwin Lee" <leeed2001@gmail.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] EnergyPlus on multi-cpu systems<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <bce4945b0901081430j36737e8akb5e5547f6fdafde3@mail.gmail.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Alex:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Just want to comment on the dual core issue. Multiple E+
runs work nicely<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>on a dual core machine (and would subsequently work with
four on a quad<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>core). I wrote a testing script that monitors each
processor on the machine<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>while constantly running two different E+ instances.
When only one runs, my<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>machine (Lenovo laptop, 2GHz Intel Core Duo, 3GB RAM, XP
Professional)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>doesn't notice anything is happening. When both
processors fill up, the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>machine does lag, but not that bad to where it completely
halts. The issue<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>that most people come across when wanting to improve E+
performance is that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>it can't easily be applied to run a single simulation on
multiple computers.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> In a program like Fluent, for instance, the CFD grid can
be split, and each<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>processor can simulate its part, and only need to
communicate at the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>interfaces. For a building simulation like E+, there
isn't really a logical<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>way to split the data, since each piece of equipment may
need to know<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>information from all sorts of other parts of the
simulation.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Two pieces of advice:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>If you can get your parametric study to run two
simulations (two instances<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>of EnergyPlus.exe) concurrently, that should nearly
double the performance<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>on a dual core/dual processor machine.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>While you are debugging your model, make sure you only
run a single design<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>day, and not any run periods. If the design days come
through without<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>problems, the run period is **likely** to not have any
either. (key is the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>**'s)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Edwin Lee<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 3<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:56:26 -0500<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: JRR <energy.wwind@cox.net><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: [Bldg-sim] EnergyPlus on multi-cpu systems,
Standard E+<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Machiine<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: alexc@2rw.com, Building Simulation<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID: <4966849A.7090804@cox.net><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
format=flowed<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Hi;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>One of the simplest ways to speed production runs is to
get several <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>identical computers, install identical<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>copies of the desired software and perform "saw
tooth" runs. In this <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>strategy the user moves down one<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>machine about every 5 minutes starting another run. After
all of the <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>machines are running go back to the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>first machine and wait for the results.As soon as the
first machine is <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>finished, load it and go again.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Quite a while ago I had a flexy manufacturing class as
part of my <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>master's degree program. The factory<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>simulation runs took a long time -- this was just as 486s
were fading <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>and Pentium CPUs were taking off.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>the runs took ~ 40 minutes so I got 8 machines in the
computer lab early <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>in the morning on a Saturday. I<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>finished the projects in one morning. My classmates were
crushing it all <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>week.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>We are interested in establishing a "standard
configuration" PC for <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>efforts to speed up Energy Plus runs.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>We are NOT interested in Equest, or TRACE, at this time.
We may have <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>some interest in Retscreen, Window 5.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The system will be based on an Intel OEM motherboard,
Intel CPU, and <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>something that is not Vista.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Windows XP PRO is available to small OEMs through January
30 in the US. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>SuSE Linux looks like a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>good alternative. I have looked at the NVIDIA Tesla
board that plugs <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>into a PCIe x16 slot. That's<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>available retail at $1600 from Tigerdirect.com. I don't
want to create <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>a $10,000 PC however.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>What is the feeling on the mailing list concerning speed
vs cost ?? Is <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>a $2,000 PC OK? $2,500 ??<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>One other feature we are looking at is providing Internet
based training <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>for Energy Plus, and Technical<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Support. Establishing a standard machine or say two
levels of standard <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>machine, operating system, tools,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>would greatly help the user community.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>John R Ross III PE<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Westwind Corporation<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Vienna, VA 22182-1958<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>energy.wwind@cox.net<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 4<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:44:49 +1030<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: Martin Belusko <Martin.Belusko@unisa.edu.au><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: [Bldg-sim] high CWLT chiller performance curves<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: "'bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org'"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <175241C47FF8E141A7AC2637D952A66D02CAC97E08@ITUPC-EX1MBOX.UniNet.unisa.edu.au><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Hi<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I am looking for some chiller performance curves at
elevated evaporator temperatures for chilled ceiling systems in commercial
buildings. Manufacturers provide data up to 9 deg. C exit temperatures but not
up to 15 deg. C. Ideally COP values at different evaporator, condenser and
load would be ideal for a water cooled chiller.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Regards<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dr. Martin Belusko<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Research Engineer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sustainable Energy Centre<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>University of South Australia<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>ph: +61 8 8302 3767<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>fx: +61 8 8302 3380<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 5<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 17:18:08 -0600<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: xiao dongyi <xiaodongyi@hotmail.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: <bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID: <BAY136-W559FE78D433F40890040B5C2DC0@phx.gbl><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="windows-1252"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I have a question regarding the chilled water pump power
calculation in ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G Paragraph G3.1.3.10 requires that
"The baseline building design pump power shall be 22 W/gpm.". If the
chilled water pumping system is a primary-secondary system, how does this rule
apply? i.e. does the 22 W/gpm apply to the primary pump, secondary pump, or
both? Or, do I need to divide it between the primary and secondary pump?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Your suggestions will be greatly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dongyi<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>_________________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_012009<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-------------- next part --------------<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 6<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 19:14:20 -0500<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: "James V. Dirkes II P.E."
<jvd2pe@tds.net><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: <xiaodongyi@hotmail.com>,
<bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID: <18F53F2665A14A4CB5628907DCEE9A1D@BPT><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Good question! My guess is that each pump may be 22W /
gpm. Since they are<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>required to use variable speed drives (for >300T), it
won't affect energy<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>adversely.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>There may be an ASHRAE clarification on this topic; have
you checked with<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>them?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The Building Performance Team<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>1631 Acacia Drive NW<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Grand Rapids, MI 49504<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>616 450 8653<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> _____ <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf
Of xiao dongyi<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:18 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I have a question regarding the chilled water pump power
calculation in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G Paragraph G3.1.3.10 requires that
"The baseline<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>building design pump power shall be 22 W/gpm.". If
the chilled water pumping<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>system is a primary-secondary system, how does this rule
apply? i.e. does<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>the 22 W/gpm apply to the primary pump, secondary pump,
or both? Or, do I<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>need to divide it between the primary and secondary pump?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Your suggestions will be greatly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dongyi<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> _____ <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync. See how it works.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_012<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>009> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 7<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:52:02 -0500<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: William Bahnfleth <wbahnfleth@psu.edu><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: "James V. Dirkes II P.E."<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <jvd2pe@tds.net>,<xiaodongyi@hotmail.com>,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID:
<ENGREMAILF2tPrPrvCW0000031c@engremailf2.engr.psu.edu><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 8<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 17:12:29 -0800<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: "Lam, Linda" <linda.lam@wspfk.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: [Bldg-sim] Is Garage Lighting a Regulated
Process Load?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: <bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <5F662BF0C1928242BF324F3EE6C27D1431544D@exc01sfo1us.FKUSA.ORG><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dear Bldg-sim<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Is the lighting in an uncovered and unconditioned parking
garage considered a process load? Where does it say that?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>In terms of App G of ASHRAE 90.1 and LEED, does
"regulated" refer to terms that are explicitly discussed in the
standard? Since the standard states that exterior lighitng for Unconvered
Parking Areas is limited 0.15 W/sf in Table 9.4.5, does that mean lighting in a
parking lot is "regulated"? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>In general I'm looking for documentation of definitions
for "Process Loads" and "Regulated" and
"Unregulated" according to LEED...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Thank you in advance!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Happy New Year!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>Linda<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>Linda Lam, LEED?? AP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>WSP Flack + Kurtz<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>405 Howard Street, Suite 500<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>San Francisco, CA 94105<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Direct: 415.402.5813<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Main Tel: 415.398.3833<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Fax: 415.433.5311<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>website: http://www.wspfk.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>vCard:
http://vcards.wspfk.com/vcardloader.php?filename=flackkurtz-linda-lam-wspfk-com-1227040073.vcf<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>image:
<http://vcards.wspfk.com/usercard.php?filename=flackkurtz-linda-lam-wspfk-com-1227040073.png>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 9<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 20:19:32 -0500<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: "James V. Dirkes II P.E."
<jvd2pe@tds.net><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: "'William Bahnfleth'"
<wbahnfleth@psu.edu>,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <xiaodongyi@hotmail.com>, <bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID: <F40F00FD588D495DB1E458546BF454A7@BPT><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dear Bill,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I don't think I follow your logic. If the total plant
head (primary plus<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>secondary) is ~100 ft., and assuming that water flow is
about the same for<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>both primary and secondary, then your calcs indicate that
22W is a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>reasonable number for the pumping system efficiency.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>This is essentially the same scenario that I intended to
use below. The<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>primary side would use, say, 30ft of head and the
secondary side would use<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>~70ft. If the total head is greater than that, it
(obviously) becomes<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>tougher to comply with 22W / gpm.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>That said, I haven't modeled a System #7 or 8 per
Appendix G yet, so I'm<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>just hypothesizing!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>p.s., I think it will be tough to get a combined
wire-water efficiency of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>85%!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The Building Performance Team<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>1631 Acacia Drive NW<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Grand Rapids, MI 49504<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>616 450 8653<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> _____ <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: William Bahnfleth [mailto:wbahnfleth@psu.edu] <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 7:52 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: James V. Dirkes II P.E.; xiaodongyi@hotmail.com;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I sincerely doubt it.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>A fairly typical total pump head for plant and
distribution for a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>primary/secondary systems might be 100 -120 ft. (Note, I
am not saying that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>is GOOD practice, but it is typical. One can generally
do better.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Let's say that the overall efficiency of pump, motor, and
drive is ~85%.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>If we use the common engineering approximation HP =
(Q*H)/(3960*eta_t), and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>given that 1 HP = 745.7 W, the power associated with 1
gpm and 100 ft wg<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>head is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>W = 745.7*(1*100)/(3960*0.85) = 22.15<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I cannot think of a reasonable scenario under which 44
W/gpm could be<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>construed to represent minimally acceptable practice.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Bill Bahnfleth<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>At 07:14 PM 1/8/2009, James V. Dirkes II P.E. wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Good question! My guess is that each pump may be 22W /
gpm. Since they are<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>required to use variable speed drives (for >300T), it
won't affect energy<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>adversely.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>There may be an ASHRAE clarification on this topic; have
you checked with<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>them?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The Building Performance Team<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>1631 Acacia Drive NW<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Grand Rapids, MI 49504<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>616 450 8653<?xml:namespace prefix = o
ns =<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> _____ <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf
Of xiao dongyi<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:18 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I have a question regarding the chilled water pump power
calculation in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G Paragraph G3.1.3.10 requires that
"The baseline<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>building design pump power shall be 22 W/gpm.". If
the chilled water pumping<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>system is a primary-secondary system, how does this rule
apply? i.e. does<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>the 22 W/gpm apply to the primary pump, secondary pump,
or both? Or, do I<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>need to divide it between the primary and secondary pump?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Your suggestions will be greatly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dongyi<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> _____ <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync. See<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_012<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>009> how it works. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>__________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>William P. Bahnfleth, PhD, PE, FASHRAE<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Professor of Architectural Engineering and Director,
Indoor Environment<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Center<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Penn State / 104 Engineering Unit A / University Park, PA
16802 USA<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>voice: 814.863.2076 / fax: 814.863.4789 / e-mail:
wbahnfleth@psu.edu<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/faculty/bahnfleth/ ,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/iec<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>It is better to know less than to know so much that ain't
so. - Josh<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Billings <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 10<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 22:30:30 -0700<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: "Ellis, Peter"
<Peter_Ellis@nrel.gov><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: [Bldg-sim] IBPSA-USA Chicago Meeting
Announcement<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: <ibpsausa@onebuilding.org>,
<bldg-sim@onebuilding.org>,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <tc47-l@onebuilding.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <C468F8F9013C3440B9DCC8273A8FE13F0C59DA7A@mail-1a.nrel.gov><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Please excuse the cross-postings...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sorry for the later-than-usual announcement. Please note
all RSVPs should go to Shanta Tucker at shanta.tucker@atelierten.com this
time. Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> IBPSA-USA<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> International Building Performance Simulation
Association<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> USA Affiliate<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> IBPSA-USA invites you to join us in Chicago<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> for our Winter 2008 meeting!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> IBPSA-USA MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Dinner RSVP requested (see below)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 4:00 PM, Saturday, January 24, 2009<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Chicago, Illinois<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Location: Meeting (4:00-6:00) at:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Palmer House Hilton (Buckingham
Room, 1st Floor)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 17 East Monroe Street<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Chicago, Illinois<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Social hour, dinner, and talk
(6:00-9:00) at:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> The Berghoff Restaurant<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 17 West Adams<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Chicago, Illinois<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>4:00 PM - 6:00 PM Meeting<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 4:00-4:30 Student Poster
Presentations<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 4:30-5:00 Software Demo Presentations<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 5:00-6:00 Posters and demos (free
format)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>6:00 PM - 7:00 PM Social hour with cash bar<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>7:00 PM Dinner (cost $40)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>8:00 PM (approx) After-dinner talk:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Jeff Boyer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Smith-Hill Architecture<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Reservations: To make a reservation contact Shanta
Tucker<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><shanta.tucker@atelierten.com> via email by January
12, 2009, 5 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>(EST).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Confirmation of reservations will be sent via email (if
you do not<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>receive a confirmation within two business days, please resend
your<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>reservation request).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>For the latest information about IBPSA-USA, please visit
our web site:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>http://www.ibpsa.us
<https://owa1.nrel.gov/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.ibpsa.us> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>We look forward to seeing you there!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Jeff Haberl Shanta Tucker<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>President, IBPSA-USA Secretary,
IBPSA-USA<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 11<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 12:01:44 +0000<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: M F A Ramadan <M.Fahmy@sheffield.ac.uk><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: [Bldg-sim] Fwd: Problems in compiling the
weather data files<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> of IBPSA<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: "bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org"
<bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID:
<1231502504.49673ca80ce40@webmail.shef.ac.uk><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dear all:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I am facing problems in writing the inner data within the
weather file.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Finally, It is easy to write the generated or measured
data into a text file<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>then it is also easy to convert it into epw or even wea.
But there seem some<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>errors within the original conversion from the original
epw into text (csv)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>which i started with to write in. Consequently all the
conversions later made<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>in the opposite direction from csv to epw conclude epw
with inner writing<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>errors. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>This appear in the DesignBuilder or even in the ECOTECT.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The issue is what is the correct format with appropriate
headers of the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>location<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>long and lat, ....etc. So that the later conversions
should read from any<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>package that uses epw or wea. Can you gide to some one
who is expert in such<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>data files issues? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>One of the problems that i found in DB, it doesn't accept
any no. of days in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>year 2002, i tried to delete the extra days once and
twice but it didn't work.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>A help would be appreciated.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Mohamad.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>----- End forwarded message -----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 12<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:55:11 -0500<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: "Itzhak Maor" <imaor@pwienergy.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: "William Bahnfleth"
<wbahnfleth@psu.edu>, "James V. Dirkes II<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> P.E." <jvd2pe@tds.net>,
<xiaodongyi@hotmail.com>,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <6E919C3471BAF441B0BADA552D96AAF02B0469@pwi-sbs.lan.pwienergy.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Hello Bill<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>You are correct. The 22 W/GPM is combined Primary and
Secondary pumping.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The assumption that used to derive this number is total
head of 75'.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Itzhak<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Itzhak Maor Ph.D., P.E., C.E.M <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Manager, Energy Efficiency Services <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Global Workplace Solutions <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Building Efficiency | Energy Services <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Johnson Controls, Inc. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>1617 JFK Blvd., Suite 1140 | Philadelphia, PA 19103 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Tel.: (215) 241-9111 ext. 14 | Fax: (215) 241-0113 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Cell: (215) 767-4582<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Itzhak.Maor@jci.com
<mailto:Colleen.T.Sarfino@jci.com> |<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>www.JohnsonControls.com
<http://www.johnsoncontrols.com/> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>cid:971061017@30102008-281C<outbind://15-000000004E71BADBD6E622488B444AB<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>CBE1B51C307006E919C3471BAF441B0BADA552D96AAF000000000940C0000FD24401A791<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>0EF4D91981847834ED2F700000BF30E570000/cid:image001.gif@01C93A94.0603E860<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Please note my new email address, effective November 1st
(and useable in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>the interim).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf
Of William<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Bahnfleth<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 7:52 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: James V. Dirkes II P.E.; xiaodongyi@hotmail.com;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I sincerely doubt it.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>A fairly typical total pump head for plant and
distribution for a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>primary/secondary systems might be 100 -120 ft. (Note, I
am not saying<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>that is GOOD practice, but it is typical. One can
generally do better.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Let's say that the overall efficiency of pump, motor, and
drive is ~85%.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>If we use the common engineering approximation HP =
(Q*H)/(3960*eta_t),<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>and given that 1 HP = 745.7 W, the power associated with
1 gpm and 100<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>ft wg head is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>W = 745.7*(1*100)/(3960*0.85) = 22.15<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I cannot think of a reasonable scenario under which 44
W/gpm could be<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>construed to represent minimally acceptable practice.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Bill Bahnfleth<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>At 07:14 PM 1/8/2009, James V. Dirkes II P.E. wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Good question! My guess is that each pump may be
22W / gpm.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Since they are required to use variable speed drives (for
>300T), it<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>won't affect energy adversely.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> There may be an ASHRAE clarification on this topic;
have you<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>checked with them?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> The Building Performance Team<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 1631 Acacia Drive NW<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Grand Rapids, MI 49504<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <span lang=PT>616 450 8653<?xml:namespace prefix
= o ns =<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> From: bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org> ]
On Behalf Of xiao<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>dongyi<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:18 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> To: bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Subject: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> I have a question regarding the chilled water pump
power<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>calculation in ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G Paragraph G3.1.3.10 requires
that "The<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>baseline building design pump power shall be 22
W/gpm.". If the chilled<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>water pumping system is a primary-secondary system, how
does this rule<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>apply? i.e. does the 22 W/gpm apply to the primary pump,
secondary pump,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>or both? Or, do I need to divide it between the primary
and secondary<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>pump?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Your suggestions will be greatly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Dongyi<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Windows Live(tm): Keep your life in sync. See how
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<p class=MsoPlainText><http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>_012009> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT> Bldg-sim mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>__________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>William P. Bahnfleth, PhD, PE, FASHRAE<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Professor of Architectural Engineering and Director,
Indoor Environment<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Center<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>Penn State / 104 Engineering Unit A / University Park, PA
16802 USA<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/faculty/bahnfleth/ ,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>It is better to know less than to know so much that ain't
so. - Josh<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Billings <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 13<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 10:01:43 -0500<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: "Crawley, Drury"
<Drury.Crawley@ee.doe.gov><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Fwd: Problems in compiling the
weather data<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> files of IBPSA<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <4B55C0CF3DB1354A9524C7D455EE6D4901618203@HQGTNEVS-04.doe.local><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The format for the weather data and what each variable
means within the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>EPW file is given in the EnergyPlus Auxiliary Programs
document<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>(available from the EnergyPlus web site). This includes
the ranges<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>expected for each variable. The CSV created by the
EnergyPlus Weather<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Converter has column headings for the hourly data where
the EPW does<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>not. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf
Of M F A<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Ramadan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:02 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: [Bldg-sim] Fwd: Problems in compiling the
weather data files of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>IBPSA<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dear all:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I am facing problems in writing the inner data within the
weather file.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Finally, It is easy to write the generated or measured
data into a text<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>file then it is also easy to convert it into epw or even
wea. But there<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>seem some errors within the original conversion from the
original epw<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>into text (csv) which i started with to write in.
Consequently all the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>conversions later made in the opposite direction from csv
to epw<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>conclude epw with inner writing errors. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>This appear in the DesignBuilder or even in the ECOTECT.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The issue is what is the correct format with appropriate
headers of the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>location long and lat, ....etc. So that the later
conversions should<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>read from any package that uses epw or wea. Can you gide
to some one<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>who is expert in such data files issues? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>One of the problems that i found in DB, it doesn't accept
any no. of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>days in the year 2002, i tried to delete the extra days
once and twice<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>but it didn't work.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>A help would be appreciated.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Mohamad.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>----- End forwarded message -----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=PT>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 14<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 07:28:10 -0800<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: "Peter Simmonds"
<peter.simmonds@ibece.net><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] high CWLT chiller performance
curves<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: "Martin Belusko"
<Martin.Belusko@unisa.edu.au>,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <B9A3AA6F98276B4EB15DECA51DB7F8510140C605@smain07.IBECE07.local><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Martin, let me try and understand your question a little
better.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>For different evaporator leaving temperatures you could
simply contact<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>the manufacturers or as many have simply map the chiller
as a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>traditional Carnot cycle and deduce the efficiency from the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>calculations.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I wrote a paper in 93 which is published in ASHRAE
transactions dealing<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>with chilled beams and chiller efficiencies associated
with running<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>chillers at say 13C-15C.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The only problem in the real world is that we often
require at least 6C<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>for air handling units and to have a dedicated chiller
for chilled<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>ceilings is a little extravagant. We usually run the
chillers at 6C, but<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>at variable speed with of course variable evaporator
flow. Bungane<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Melamakulu and I wrote a paper on chiller efficiency for
the IBPSA<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>conference in Colorado.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I do not wish this reply to seem as many replies that we
have done this<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>before, but does this answer you question?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Peter Simmonds Ph.D.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Senior Associate, Advanced Technology Group<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>IBE Consulting Engineers<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf
Of Martin<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Belusko<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 3:15 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: 'bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org'<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: [Bldg-sim] high CWLT chiller performance curves<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Hi<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I am looking for some chiller performance curves at
elevated evaporator<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>temperatures for chilled ceiling systems in commercial
buildings.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Manufacturers provide data up to 9 deg. C exit
temperatures but not up<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>to 15 deg. C. Ideally COP values at different
evaporator, condenser and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>load would be ideal for a water cooled chiller.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Regards<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dr. Martin Belusko<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Research Engineer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sustainable Energy Centre<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>University of South Australia<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>ph: +61 8 8302 3767<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>fx: +61 8 8302 3380<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 15<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:36:11 -0600<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: xiao dongyi <xiaodongyi@hotmail.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: <imaor@pwienergy.com>,
<wbahnfleth@psu.edu>, <jvd2pe@tds.net>,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID: <BAY136-W4307E4E008A5767262164CC2DD0@phx.gbl><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="windows-1252"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Hi Itzhak,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>If that is the assumption used to derive the 22 W/gpm,
then how should I divide it between the primary and secondary pump?Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dongyi<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump powerDate:
Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:55:11 -0500From: imaor@pwienergy.comTo: wbahnfleth@psu.edu;
jvd2pe@tds.net; xiaodongyi@hotmail.com; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Hello Bill<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>You are correct. The 22 W/GPM is combined Primary and
Secondary pumping. The assumption that used to derive this number is total head
of 75'.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Itzhak<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Itzhak Maor Ph.D., P.E., C.E.M Manager, Energy Efficiency
Services <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Global Workplace Solutions Building Efficiency | Energy
Services <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Johnson Controls, Inc. 1617 JFK Blvd., Suite 1140 |
Philadelphia, PA 19103 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Tel.: (215) 241-9111 ext. 14 | Fax: (215) 241-0113 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Cell: (215) 767-4582<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Itzhak.Maor@jci.com | www.JohnsonControls.com <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Please note my new email address, effective November 1st
(and useable in the interim).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of William
BahnflethSent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 7:52 PMTo: James V. Dirkes II P.E.;
xiaodongyi@hotmail.com; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.orgSubject: Re: [Bldg-sim]
chilled water pump power<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I sincerely doubt it.A fairly typical total pump head for
plant and distribution for a primary/secondary systems might be 100 -120 ft.
(Note, I am not saying that is GOOD practice, but it is typical. One can
generally do better.)Let's say that the overall efficiency of pump, motor, and
drive is ~85%.If we use the common engineering approximation HP =
(Q*H)/(3960*eta_t), and given that 1 HP = 745.7 W, the power associated with 1
gpm and 100 ft wg head isW = 745.7*(1*100)/(3960*0.85) = 22.15I cannot think of
a reasonable scenario under which 44 W/gpm could be construed to represent
minimally acceptable practice.Bill BahnflethAt 07:14 PM 1/8/2009, James V.
Dirkes II P.E. wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Good question! My guess is that each pump may be 22W /
gpm. Since they are required to use variable speed drives (for >300T), it
won't affect energy adversely. There may be an ASHRAE clarification on this
topic; have you checked with them? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The Building Performance TeamJames V. Dirkes II, P.E.,
LEED AP1631 Acacia Drive NWGrand Rapids, MI 49504616 450 8653<?xml:namespace
prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [
mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of xiao dongyiSent:
Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:18 PMTo: bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.orgSubject:
[Bldg-sim] chilled water pump powerHi, I have a question regarding the chilled
water pump power calculation in ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G: ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G
Paragraph G3.1.3.10 requires that "The baseline building design pump power
shall be 22 W/gpm.". If the chilled water pumping system is a
primary-secondary system, how does this rule apply? i.e. does the 22 W/gpm
apply to the primary pump, secondary pump, or both? Or, do I need to divide it
between the primary and secondary pump? Your suggestions will be greatly
appreciated. Thanks, Dongyi<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. See how it works.
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<p class=MsoPlainText>__________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>William P. Bahnfleth, PhD, PE, FASHRAE<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Professor of Architectural Engineering and Director,
Indoor Environment Center<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Penn State / 104 Engineering Unit A / University Park, PA
16802 USA<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>voice: 814.863.2076 / fax: 814.863.4789 / e-mail:
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<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 16<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:34:44 -0700<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: "Zhuolun Chen"
<chenzhuolun@hotmail.com><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: "Itzhak Maor" <imaor@pwienergy.com>, "William
Bahnfleth"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <wbahnfleth@psu.edu>, "James V. Dirkes
II P.E." <jvd2pe@tds.net>,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <xiaodongyi@hotmail.com>, <bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID:
<BLU133-DS75A5BD1B91202438EEF23B0DD0@phx.gbl><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Hi, Itzhak<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I want to know that if the 22 w/gpm is the total of
primary and secondary pumping, how can I divide this total value into the two
system? Is there a factor or something I can use?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>ZL Chen<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: Itzhak Maor <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:55 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: William Bahnfleth ; James V. Dirkes II P.E. ;
xiaodongyi@hotmail.com ; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Hello Bill<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>You are correct. The 22 W/GPM is combined Primary and
Secondary pumping. The assumption that used to derive this number is total head
of 75'.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Itzhak<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Itzhak Maor Ph.D., P.E., C.E.M <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Manager, Energy Efficiency Services <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Global Workplace Solutions <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Building Efficiency | Energy Services <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Johnson Controls, Inc. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>1617 JFK Blvd., Suite 1140 | Philadelphia, PA 19103 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Tel.: (215) 241-9111 ext. 14 | Fax: (215) 241-0113 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Cell: (215) 767-4582<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Itzhak.Maor@jci.com | www.JohnsonControls.com <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Please note my new email address, effective November 1st
(and useable in the interim).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of William Bahnfleth<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 7:52 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: James V. Dirkes II P.E.; xiaodongyi@hotmail.com;
bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I sincerely doubt it.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>A fairly typical total pump head for plant and
distribution for a primary/secondary systems might be 100 -120 ft. (Note, I am
not saying that is GOOD practice, but it is typical. One can generally do
better.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Let's say that the overall efficiency of pump, motor, and
drive is ~85%.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>If we use the common engineering approximation HP =
(Q*H)/(3960*eta_t), and given that 1 HP = 745.7 W, the power associated with 1
gpm and 100 ft wg head is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>W = 745.7*(1*100)/(3960*0.85) = 22.15<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I cannot think of a reasonable scenario under which 44
W/gpm could be construed to represent minimally acceptable practice.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Bill Bahnfleth<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>At 07:14 PM 1/8/2009, James V. Dirkes II P.E. wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Good question! My guess is that each pump may be 22W /
gpm. Since they are required to use variable speed drives (for >300T), it
won't affect energy adversely.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> There may be an ASHRAE clarification on this topic;
have you checked with them?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> The Building Performance Team<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 1631 Acacia Drive NW<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Grand Rapids, MI 49504<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 616 450 8653<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> From: bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [
mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of xiao dongyi<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:18 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> To: bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Subject: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> I have a question regarding the chilled water pump
power calculation in ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G Paragraph G3.1.3.10 requires
that "The baseline building design pump power shall be 22 W/gpm.". If
the chilled water pumping system is a primary-secondary system, how does this
rule apply? i.e. does the 22 W/gpm apply to the primary pump, secondary pump,
or both? Or, do I need to divide it between the primary and secondary pump?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Your suggestions will be greatly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Dongyi<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. See how it
works. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>William P. Bahnfleth, PhD, PE, FASHRAE<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 17<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 10:13:37 -0700<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: Kendra Tupper <ktupper@rmi.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: [Bldg-sim] Lab ACH Setback with Packaged Single
Zone Systems<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: <equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org>,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org.><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID: <C58CD3D1.4BC1%ktupper@rmi.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I am modeling a lab spaces for LEED, and the 90.1-2004
Baseline system is a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Packaged Single Zone. The lab spaces have 12 ACH during
occupied periods,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>and 6 ACH during unoccupied periods.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Using eQUEST, I cannot seem to get the supply airflow to
vary between 12 and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>6 ACH. I have fume hood exhaust schedules which control
the OA flow rates,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>and these are both varying between occupied and
unoccupied hours. I have<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>specified my Min Flow Ratio to 0.5 at the system level,
set my Min ACH to 6<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>at the zone level, and assigned a Min Flow Schedule to
the zone level<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>airflow that matches that of the fume hood exhaust
schedule.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I have been outputting hourly variable to check how the
system is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>performing and right now my supply air is constant at 12
ACH, while the OA<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>and EA varies between 6 and 12. Is there anyway to get
the supply airflow<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>to vary on a PSZ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I was able to get this to work in another model with a
Reheat Fan System<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>that was serving multiple zones, but it doesn?t seem
right to change the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>system type.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Thank you,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Kendra Tupper<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Senior Consultant<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Rocky Mountain Institute<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Built Environment Team<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>www.rmi.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>1820 Folsom Street<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Boulder, CO 80302<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Direct: 303-567-8641<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Main: 303-245-1003<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Fax: 303-245-7213<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>-------------- next part --------------<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 18<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 12:58:59 -0500<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: "Crawley, Drury"
<Drury.Crawley@ee.doe.gov><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: [Bldg-sim] New Interfaces and Standard 140-2007
Testing<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> Reports for EnergyPlus<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <4B55C0CF3DB1354A9524C7D455EE6D490161824A@HQGTNEVS-04.doe.local><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Links to two new interfaces for EnergyPlus are now posted
on the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>EnergyPlus web site:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>* Easy EnergyPlus (Chinese language interface)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>* EnergyPlugged (AutoCAD plug-in to create and edit
EnergyPlus<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>input files).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Information on these and the other interfaces and tools
is available<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>here:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/energyplus/interfaces_tools.cfm<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/energyplus/ep_input_creation.cfm<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The reports documenting the testing of EnergyPlus have
been updated to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>EnergyPlus Version 3.0 and are now available here:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/energyplus/testing.cfm<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>These include ASHRAE Standard 140-2007 (envelope, HVAC
CE100-200,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>CE300-545, and HE100-230), ASHRAE research project 1052,
and two other<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>test suites developed by the EnergyPlus team for HVAC
components and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>global energy balance.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>EnergyPlus Team<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-------------- next part --------------<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 19<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 13:23:18 -0500<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: "James V. Dirkes II P.E."
<jvd2pe@tds.net><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: <xiaodongyi@hotmail.com>,
<imaor@pwienergy.com>,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <wbahnfleth@psu.edu>, <bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID: <F2D64C423BDE47BAAE73EACBBF338F16@BPT><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dear Dongyi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I assign the actual flow (gpm or m3/s) and an equivalent
head that results<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>in the ASHRAE pump power limit. I've attached a
spreadsheet which helps do<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>that for you more easily.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Note that I use EPlus and it assigns a fixed pump
efficiency. You'll have<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>to figure that out for your software.....<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The Building Performance Team<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>1631 Acacia Drive NW<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Grand Rapids, MI 49504<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>616 450 8653<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> _____ <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: xiao dongyi [mailto:xiaodongyi@hotmail.com] <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 10:36 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: imaor@pwienergy.com; wbahnfleth@psu.edu;
jvd2pe@tds.net;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Hi Itzhak,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>If that is the assumption used to derive the 22 W/gpm,
then how should I<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>divide it between the primary and secondary pump?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dongyi<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> _____ <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:55:11 -0500<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: imaor@pwienergy.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: wbahnfleth@psu.edu; jvd2pe@tds.net;
xiaodongyi@hotmail.com;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Hello Bill<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>You are correct. The 22 W/GPM is combined Primary and
Secondary pumping. The<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>assumption that used to derive this number is total head
of 75'.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Itzhak<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Itzhak Maor Ph.D., P.E., C.E.M <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Manager, Energy Efficiency Services <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Global Workplace Solutions <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Building Efficiency | Energy Services <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Johnson Controls, Inc. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>1617 JFK Blvd., Suite 1140 | Philadelphia, PA 19103 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Tel.: (215) 241-9111 ext. 14 | Fax: (215) 241-0113 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Cell: (215) 767-4582<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Itzhak.Maor@jci.com | www.JohnsonControls.com <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> cid:971061017@30102008-281C<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_safe.gif> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Please note my new email address, effective November 1st
(and useable in the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>interim).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> _____ <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf
Of William<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Bahnfleth<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 7:52 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: James V. Dirkes II P.E.; xiaodongyi@hotmail.com;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I sincerely doubt it.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>A fairly typical total pump head for plant and distribution
for a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>primary/secondary systems might be 100 -120 ft. (Note, I
am not saying that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>is GOOD practice, but it is typical. One can generally
do better.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Let's say that the overall efficiency of pump, motor, and
drive is ~85%.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>If we use the common engineering approximation HP =
(Q*H)/(3960*eta_t), and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>given that 1 HP = 745.7 W, the power associated with 1
gpm and 100 ft wg<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>head is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>W = 745.7*(1*100)/(3960*0.85) = 22.15<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I cannot think of a reasonable scenario under which 44
W/gpm could be<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>construed to represent minimally acceptable practice.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Bill Bahnfleth<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>At 07:14 PM 1/8/2009, James V. Dirkes II P.E. wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Good question! My guess is that each pump may be 22W /
gpm. Since they are<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>required to use variable speed drives (for >300T), it
won't affect energy<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>adversely.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>There may be an ASHRAE clarification on this topic; have
you checked with<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>them?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The Building Performance Team<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>1631 Acacia Drive NW<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Grand Rapids, MI 49504<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> _____ <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf
Of xiao dongyi<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:18 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I have a question regarding the chilled water pump power
calculation in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G Paragraph G3.1.3.10 requires that
"The baseline<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>building design pump power shall be 22 W/gpm.". If
the chilled water pumping<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>system is a primary-secondary system, how does this rule
apply? i.e. does<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>the 22 W/gpm apply to the primary pump, secondary pump,
or both? Or, do I<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>need to divide it between the primary and secondary pump?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Your suggestions will be greatly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dongyi<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoPlainText>End of Bldg-sim Digest, Vol 14, Issue 7<o:p></o:p></p>
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