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Hi Itzhak,<BR>
<BR>
If that is the assumption used to derive the 22 W/gpm, then how should I divide it between the primary and secondary pump?<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR>
<BR>
Dongyi<BR><BR>
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Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power<BR>Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:55:11 -0500<BR>From: imaor@pwienergy.com<BR>To: wbahnfleth@psu.edu; jvd2pe@tds.net; xiaodongyi@hotmail.com; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=EC_198584714-09012009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Hello Bill</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=EC_198584714-09012009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=EC_198584714-09012009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>You are correct. The 22 W/GPM is <U>combined </U>Primary and Secondary pumping. The assumption that used to derive this number is total head of 75'.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=EC_198584714-09012009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=EC_198584714-09012009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Thanks</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=EC_198584714-09012009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=EC_198584714-09012009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Itzhak</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
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<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>William Bahnfleth<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 08, 2009 7:52 PM<BR><B>To:</B> James V. Dirkes II P.E.; xiaodongyi@hotmail.com; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>I sincerely doubt it.<BR><BR>A fairly typical total pump head for plant and distribution for a primary/secondary systems might be 100 -120 ft. (Note, I am not saying that is GOOD practice, but it is typical. One can generally do better.)<BR><BR>Let's say that the overall efficiency of pump, motor, and drive is ~85%.<BR><BR>If we use the common engineering approximation HP = (Q*H)/(3960*eta_t), and given that 1 HP = 745.7 W, the power associated with 1 gpm and 100 ft wg head is<BR><BR>W = 745.7*(1*100)/(3960*0.85) = 22.15<BR><BR>I cannot think of a reasonable scenario under which 44 W/gpm could be construed to represent minimally acceptable practice.<BR><BR>Bill Bahnfleth<BR><BR>At 07:14 PM 1/8/2009, James V. Dirkes II P.E. wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite=""><FONT color=#0000ff>Good question! My guess is that each pump may be 22W / gpm. Since they are required to use variable speed drives (for >300T), it won't affect energy adversely.<BR></FONT> <BR><FONT color=#0000ff>There may be an ASHRAE clarification on this topic; have you checked with them?<BR></FONT> <BR><BR>
<DIV align=center><FONT size=4><B>The Building Performance Team<BR></FONT>James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP<BR></B>1631 Acacia Drive NW<BR>Grand Rapids, MI 49504<BR>616 450 8653<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><BR></DIV><BR> <BR> <BR><BR>
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<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [<A> mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</A>] <B>On Behalf Of </B>xiao dongyi<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:18 PM<BR><B>To:</B> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Bldg-sim] chilled water pump power<BR></FONT><BR>Hi,<BR> <BR>I have a question regarding the chilled water pump power calculation in ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G:<BR> <BR>ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G Paragraph G3.1.3.10 requires that "The <I>baseline building design </I>pump power shall be 22 W/gpm<I>.". </I>If the chilled water pumping system is a primary-secondary system, how does this rule apply? i.e. does the 22 W/gpm apply to the primary pump, secondary pump, or both? Or, do I need to divide it between the primary and secondary pump?<BR> <BR>Your suggestions will be greatly appreciated.<BR> <BR>Thanks,<BR> <BR>Dongyi<BR><BR>
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