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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Can someone please provide input regarding what would be the
correct Appendix G baseline system for a 4 storied building > 150,000 sf
which has a chilled water system for cooling and uses electric series fan
powered boxes for perimeter heating. There is a gas fired dedicated outside air
unit that supplies air to all the Air handling Units. The gas fired OA units
use about 35% of the total heating energy for the building. The rest 65% is
from the perimeter boxes. The total heating utility cost for gas is very small
($6500) compared to the total building utility cost ($270,500). </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>We intend to submit this project for LEED and are struggling
since the choice of the base system significantly changes the performance of
the building. We have implemented a number of energy saving measures in the
design like better insulation in walls and roof, high performance glass,
daylight sensors, occupancy controls, reduced lighting power density, heat
recovery, water side economizer. Our building saves about 15%energy compared to
the baseline system when using System 7 as the baseline. However in terms of
Utility this imposes a major penalty and barely meets the baseline Utility Cost
when compared to a hydronic system i.e., System 7.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>When the baseline is modeled as System 8 we can the 14%
Utility Cost savings. </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Has someone modeled a system similar to this before and
submitted it for LEED. What would be the correct choice for the baseline
system. </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>There is note on page 176 which states” Where
attributes make a building eligible for more than one building system type, use
the predominant condition to determine the system type for the entire building.
“</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>We think this exception would apply to our design since most
of our heating is electric and System 8 would be the right system to use.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>One option around this is to change our Outside air units as
electric and then there would be no question regarding the base system as it
would be electric System 8. However we do not think this is the right design
approach since the proposed design would have more utility cost than the
current scenario and meet LEED 14% requirements.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>There was a discussion regarding this a few days back on the
forum and there was a mention of a CIR dated 9/27/2006. Would this apply to our
case?</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I know there are a number of experienced professionals on
this forum who have been involved with the LEED energy and atmosphere credits
documentation evaluation for different LEED projects for this credit. I would appreciate
your insight.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Please advise. </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:13.5pt'><font size=1 color=red
face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>ARVINDER
DANG, LEED</span></font><sup><font size=2 color=red><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;color:red'>®</span></font><font color=red><span style='color:red'> </span></font></sup><font
size=1 color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:red'>AP</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:13.5pt'><font size=1 color=gray
face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:gray'>SUSTAINABILITY
SPECIALIST</span></font><font size=1 color="#999999" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#999999'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:13.5pt'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:13.5pt'><font size=1 color=gray
face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:gray'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Rosenberg, Michael I<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, November 03, 2008
10:43 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> James Hansen; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Bldg-sim]
Fossil/Electric hybrid system under 90.1 App G</span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Yes, you are correct. Appendix G requires that if you have
any gas heat in your Proposed building, the baseline system would use gas heat.
However, if this is for a LEED submittal, you may want to do a little research
on relevant CIR's since USGBC has interpreted this a little differently than
was intended by Appendix G. </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=3 color="#d47500" face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#D47500;font-weight:bold'>_________________________</span></font></b><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'>
</span></font></p>
<p><b><font size=3 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Verdana;
font-weight:bold'>Michael Rosenberg</span></font></b> <br>
<font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Senior
Commercial Buildings Energy Analyst</span></font> <br>
<font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>ENERGY
& ENVIRONMENT DIRECTORATE </span></font></p>
<p><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Pacific
Northwest National Laboratory </span></font><br>
<font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>2032
Todd Street</span></font><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'> </span></font><br>
<font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Eugene</span></font><font
size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>, OR 97405</span></font><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Verdana'> </span></font><br>
<font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>(541)
844-1960 </span></font><br>
<font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>michael.rosenberg@pnl.gov
</span></font><br>
<font size=2 color="#d47500" face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana;color:#D47500'>www.pnl.gov</span></font> </p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'> </span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>James Hansen<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, November 03, 2008
8:32 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Bldg-sim]
Fossil/Electric hybrid system under 90.1 App G</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>I
can’t seem to find reference to this in the 90.1 User Manual. </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>In
Appendix G, Table G3.1.1A, there is a reference to a Fossil/Electric hybrid for
determining Baseline system type. Is this a system that, for example,
might have a gas-fired RTU with electric VAV boxes? </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>In
other words, if there is ANY gas heat in your Proposed building, your Baseline
building would have to automatically default to a fuel furnace or gas-fired hot
water heating system, correct?</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Thanks,</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=3 color=teal face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:teal;font-weight:bold'>GHT
Limited<br>
</span></font></b><b><font color=black face=Arial><span style='font-family:
Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>James Hansen</span></font></b><b><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;font-weight:bold'>, PE, LEED AP</span></font></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
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