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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I received an off-list reply to
my query which pointed me towards the following LEED document:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><a
href="http://www.usgbc.org/ShowFile.aspx?DocumentID=4176">http://www.usgbc.org/ShowFile.aspx?DocumentID=4176</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>The document describes an
alternative procedure for cases where you have district thermal energy schemes
(it covers both heating and cooling). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Hope that helps,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Andy</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Dan Russell
[mailto:danr@engineeringinc.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 10 October 2008 15:33<br>
<b>To:</b> Andy Stone; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org;
bldg-rate@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: ASHRAE 90.1-2004 Purchased Chilled Water<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>I have a similar
scenario although mine is on the heating side. In my case the proposed
building is using purchased heat via a low-temp geothermal water source that
can be purchased from the local District. The baseline is required by App
G to be VAV w/ reheat using design supply hot water temp = 180 deg F. The
geothermal source is 110 deg, so it can’t be used in the baseline scheme with
standard hot water heating coils. This situation is different than Andy’s
in that using the geothermal source results in a tremendous cost savings to the
owner. The proposed system will use Water-Water Heat Pumps to take about
a 65 degree temperature drop out of the 110 deg source. The cost of the
source is based on gallons usage, with no regard for heat transfer. The
rate schedule is set to be equivalent to the cost of natural gas assuming a 20
deg temperature drop. So in essence, every degree the system can take out
past 20 deg is free heating energy, which I’m hoping the modeling protocol allows
credit for.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>So, I am interested
if there is any insight out there on what to do when the baseline and proposed
systems utilize separate utilities.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Cheltenham;
color:#A0002F'> </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:18.0pt;
font-family:Cheltenham;color:#A0002F'>Dan Russell, EIT <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Cheltenham;
color:#A0002F'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Cheltenham;
color:#A0002F'><img border=0 width=200 height=174 id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:image001.jpg@01C92AEE.E35325B0"
alt="cid:image001.jpg@01C840A4.E711B250"></span><span lang=EN-US
style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Andy Stone<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 10, 2008 4:49 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] ASHRAE 90.1-2004 Purchased Chilled Water<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>I'm doing a LEED EAc1/ASHRAE 90.1-2004 Appendix G
calculation where the building is served by a district cooling scheme and the
basecase building is serviced by PTHP (ASHRAE 90.1 table G3.1.1A), i.e. the
basecase building is uses electrically powered DX coils compared to purchased
chilled water coils for the proposed building. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>The problem I have is that the price per kWh of chilled
water is very close to the local price per kWh of electricity, which means that
the cooling energy cost of the proposed building ends up much larger - for the
PTHP system 1kWh of electricity gives something like 3kWh of cooling, but the
same money only gets 1kWh of cooling from the district scheme, which makes it
virtually impossible to get any LEED EAc1 credits. Has anyone else
encountered this issue?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Thanks for your help,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Andy<o:p></o:p></p>
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