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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=000062513-25092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Josh,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=000062513-25092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=000062513-25092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I have had some luck using the pre-defined values in the
tables people mention. The problem is that the ratio of frame area to
total window area is so variable that <SPAN class=000062513-25092008><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I don't think there is a good rule of thumb to
use. </FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=000062513-25092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=000062513-25092008></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=000062513-25092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=000062513-25092008>Here is some
data based on some recent modeling projects.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=000062513-25092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=000062513-25092008></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=000062513-25092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=000062513-25092008>large curtain wall and store
front systems have between 5-25% frame area</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=000062513-25092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=000062513-25092008>punch-out windows have
between 18-40% frame area (lower percentage for fixed, higher for
operable)</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=000062513-25092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=000062513-25092008></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=000062513-25092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=000062513-25092008>You can see that there is a
wide range which could significantly impact the accuracy of an energy
model. In my opinion, n</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=000062513-25092008><SPAN class=000062513-25092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>ot accounting for window frame area
properly can lead to dubious energy modeling results, especially
if you're doing comparisons between different glazing
choices.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=000062513-25092008><SPAN
class=000062513-25092008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=000062513-25092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Mike</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=000062513-25092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=000062513-25092008>
<DIV align=left><FONT face="Arial Black" size=2>Michael Tillou, PE,
LEED</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face="Arial Black" size=2>Tillou Engineering,
LLC</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face="Arial Black" size=1>Williamstown, MA
01267</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face="Arial Black" size=1>P:
413-458-9870</FONT> <FONT face="Arial Black" size=1>C:
413-652-1087</FONT></DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=000062513-25092008> </SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Josh
Greenfield<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 22, 2008 3:23 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
Zeng, Ming; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org;
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Bldg-sim] Glass
center-of-glass to assembly U-Value?<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">ASHRAE 90.1-2004 Section 5.8.2.5
exception (b) allows the SHGC/SC center-of-glass to be an acceptable alternative
for determining compliance with the SHGC/SC requirements for the overall
fenestration area.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Josh
</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><ns0:place><ns0:City><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d">Greenfield</SPAN></ns0:City><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d">, </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt"><ns0:State><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d">PE</SPAN></ns0:State></ns0:place></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">,
LEED AP</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR>Senior
Associate<BR>Primera Engineers, Ltd.<BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><ns0:Street><ns0:address><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d">100 S. Wacker Drive, Suite
700</SPAN></ns0:address></ns0:Street><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><BR></SPAN><ns0:place><ns0:City><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d">Chicago</SPAN></ns0:City><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">,
</SPAN><ns0:State><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">IL</SPAN></ns0:State><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN><ns0:PostalCode><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d">60606</SPAN></ns0:PostalCode></ns0:place><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><BR>312.606.0910 </SPAN><ns0:place><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d">Main</SPAN></ns0:place><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><BR>312.242.6392 Direct<BR>312.606.0415
Fax<BR></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><A
title=blocked::mailto:jgreenfield@primerachicago.com
href="blocked::mailto:jgreenfield@primerachicago.com"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">jgreenfield@primerachicago.com</SPAN></A><BR><A
title=blocked::http://www.primerachicago.com/
href="http://www.primerachicago.com"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">http://www.primerachicago.com</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Be
Green...please consider the environment before printing this email.</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> Zeng, Ming
[mailto:mzeng@leoadaly.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 22, 2008 1:09
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Andrew Craig; Josh Greenfield; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org;
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Bldg-sim] Glass
center-of-glass to assembly U-Value?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Can we use glass center of glass
shading coefficient for the assembly ? If not, is there any similar table for
assembly shading coefficient calculation? <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Thanks. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #888888; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">Ming
Zeng</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #888888; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">,
PE, LEED<SUP>®</SUP> Accredited Professional</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #888888; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">Mechanical
Engineer</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; COLOR: #1f497d; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><IMG
id=_x0000_i1027 height=26 alt="Image removed by sender. LEO A DALY"
src="cid:000062513@25092008-1E86" width=380 border=0></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #888888; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">730
Second Avenue South, Suite 1100, Minneapolis, MN
55402-2455<BR><B>T</B> 612.338.8741 <B>F</B> 612.338.4840 <B>D</B> 612.341.9539 <BR><A
href="http://www.leoadaly.com"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none">www.leoadaly.com</SPAN></A> <A
href="mailto:MZeng@leoadaly.com"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt">MZeng@leoadaly.com</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<TABLE class=MsoNormalTable cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; FONT-SIZE: 7pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; COLOR: #006633; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"><IMG
id=_x0000_i1026 height=20
alt="Image removed by sender. http://mail.leoadaly.com/greentree.gif"
src="cid:000062513@25092008-1E8D" width=20 border=0></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: #006633; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">Please
consider the environment before
printing.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Andrew
Craig<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 22, 2008 11:41 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Josh
Greenfield; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org;
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Bldg-sim] Glass
center-of-glass to assembly U-Value?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Attached
is a handy spreadsheet from the Oregon Energy Code User’s Manual.
Hopefully this is what you are looking for.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'">Please
note my new e-mail address: <A title=mailto:michelew@interfaceeng.com
href="mailto:andrewc@interfaceeng.com">andrewc@interfaceeng.com</A></SPAN></B><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'">Andrew
Craig, EIT,LEED AP</SPAN></B><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #663300; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'">/</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'"> Mechanical
Designer/ Energy Analyst</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'"><BR></SPAN><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #663300; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'">INTERFACE</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #663300; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'">
ENGINEERING</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'">
<BR></SPAN><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'">direct</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'">
503.382.2696</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'">
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Josh
Greenfield<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 22, 2008 9:07 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org;
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Bldg-sim] Glass
center-of-glass to assembly U-Value?</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Does anyone have any rules of thumb on a quick/easy
approximation for taking a Center-of-Glass U-value and converting it to an
Assembly U-value based on industry standard assembly constructions? I know
this depends on a lot of variables, like frame material and conductance, and the
size of the overall glass assembly, etc., but I’m just looking for a quick
estimate on performance reduction for comparisons to other window types for a
particular building.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Also, is there an ASHRAE 90.1-2004 Baseline glass Visible
Light Transmittance (VLT)?<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Josh Greenfield,
</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">PE,
LEED AP</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR>Senior
Associate<BR>Primera Engineers, Ltd.<BR>100 S. Wacker Drive, Suite
700<BR>Chicago, IL 60606<BR>312.606.0910 Main<BR>312.242.6392
Direct<BR>312.606.0415 Fax<BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><A
title=blocked::mailto:jgreenfield@primerachicago.com
href="blocked::mailto:jgreenfield@primerachicago.com"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">jgreenfield@primerachicago.com</SPAN></A><BR><A
title=blocked::http://www.primerachicago.com/
href="http://www.primerachicago.com"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">http://www.primerachicago.com</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Be
Green...please consider the environment before printing this
email.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></BODY></HTML>