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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Any idea about ANSYS CFX?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>ANSYS own both codes now and tell me that CFX can do everything
that Fluent can do and recommended it to me really in preference to Fluent for
building applications. What’s the difference?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Claire<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Carey<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 10 September 2008 15:25<br>
<b>To:</b> 'antixs antixs'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] CFD Software for Built Environment<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Antixs, et al</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Airpak is okay and is perfectly adapted to HVAC applications as it
includes fan details, etc allowing you introduce swirl, etc. It is
expensive for what you get though. It has improved, but the gridding was
fairly rough and ready if you get complex geometry and can throw a wobbly if
you are doing external flow analysis for things like pedestrian comfort
assessments where you could need large variance in your grid cell
size. If you are doing rooms, etc you'll be fine. I'd agree with
Kai's comments though.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Not used FloVent. It's quite pretty from memory, it's outputs
are well suited to HVAC work and make the whole CFD (Colour For Directors)
stand up. Whether it is good for complex analysis I'm not sure and will have to
leave that to others to comment on.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>CHAM's flair is HVAC specific and there is even a link with
Hevacomp so if you've done your room calculations in that then there is a
reduced version which will let you do some basic flow analysis. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>The problem with most of these simplified tools however tends to be
the gridding which has a tendancy to let them down and so convergence of
solutions can be hard to achieve. It really does depend on what you
are going to use it for and what sort of problems.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Sorry about copying your message below to the list Kai, but I think
others will lose the thinking of the thread and my comments as well, hope you
don't mind.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Cheers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><strong><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></strong><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Kang, Kai
[mailto:Kai.Kang@jacobs.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 10 September 2008 14:52<br>
<b>To:</b> antixs antixs; Paul Carey<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Bldg-sim] CFD Software for Built Environment</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:navy'>Antixs,
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:navy'>Both
Airpak and Flovent are customized CFD programs for building HVAC
applications. Airpak wraps around the basic Fluent solver, and
provides a user-interface that is much more geared towards building
engineers, as well as some additional functions that is only available with
Airpak, such as solar heat gain. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:navy'>I
have some experience with Airpak a while ago, being a Fluent user for many
years, I did not find any problem of learning the program and will say an
engineer without prior experience should be able to pick up the modeling pretty
quickly - the problem, however, is that if there is any issue with the
model, such as if the solution is diverging, it is very difficult to
"debug" the model in Airpak. I assume the same would be for Flovent,
so in essence I would say they provide the easiness in
"cookie-cutter" applications. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:navy'>I
am not copying this to the entire mailing list, as I may be talking a
bit too specific. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:navy'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:navy'>Kai</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span lang=EN-US>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> antixs
antixs [mailto:antixs.antixs@gmail.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 10 September 2008 14:36<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Carey<br>
<b>Cc:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] CFD Software for Built Environment</span><span
lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Paul,<br>
Thanks for such detailed information! They are really helpful. Do you have any
experience with Airpak and Flovent? Heard that these two tools are specially
tailored for built environment.<br>
<br>
Thanks again.<br>
<br>
antixs<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 4:39 PM, Paul Carey <<a
href="mailto:Paul@zed-uk.com">Paul@zed-uk.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Antixs</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>I think this depends largely on your budget and proficiency.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>If you want to go full on with CFD, then I'd suggest Fluent (<a
href="http://www.fluent.com/" target="_blank">http://www.fluent.com/</a>)
everyday. It is very widely used and well trusted tool. ICEM is
a good meshing tool, but we like Pointwise and Gridgen for it's meshing
simplicity.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Other than that, I know CCM+ from CD-Adapco (<a
href="http://www.cd-adapco.com/" target="_blank">http://www.cd-adapco.com/</a>)
is very good too. Makes the job quite easy. These tools are very
expensive though.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>If you want the same sort of capability and are willing to use
mainly text input then I'd suggest OpenFoam (<a href="http://www.openfoam.org"
target="_blank">http://www.openfoam.org</a>) - a very powerful open source
CFD tool. You could use something like pointwise to mesh it, output a
fluent case file and then openfoam has it's own fluent case file converter
program which you could use to then convert it and process it. You'd
probably need a decent post processor too, but clearly then you are only paying
for those programs as openfoam itself is free. If you can do it
all by text then you wouldn't need to pay anything at all. It will
require you to use Linux though. I saw a pre-compiled bootable live CD
distro of this recently which was quite impressive so it allows you to check it
out just by inserting CD into computer and booting to it. The link for
that is: <a href="http://www.caelinux.com/CMS/" target="_blank">http://www.caelinux.com/CMS/</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Of the cheaper and possibly more usable programs for quick built
environment analysis. Cham Pheonics (<a href="http://www.cham.co.uk/"
target="_blank">http://www.cham.co.uk/</a>) is good value for
money. It's Flair add on is pretty simple to use. I'd still personally
get a good CAD program to make sure your geometry is spot on before importing
it, but then it would do the job well. A lot of companies use it becasue
of it's relative simplicity and good price.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Another which is aimed at non-CFD experts is DesignBuilder CFD
(<a href="http://www.designbuilder.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.designbuilder.co.uk/</a>).
It is in beta test stage and looks promising. It'll be great for simple
stuff. Wouln't recommend anything that uses just cartesian grids for
complex jobs, but for the large majority of jobs it will suit, especially if
it's internal room flows, etc. Should be quite competitive on the price
too.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Hope that helps.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Dr Paul Carey<br>
Director<br>
<br>
Zero Energy Design Ltd<br>
10A Portland Place<br>
2-22 Mottram Road<br>
Stalybridge<br>
SK15 3AD<br>
UK<br>
<br>
T: +44 0161 3386200<br>
F: +44 0161 3031281<br>
M: +44 0789 4098012<br>
E: paul@zed-uk.com</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'><br>
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:blue'>http://www.zed-uk.com/</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span lang=EN-US>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>antixs antixs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 10 September 2008 05:13 <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] CFD Software for Built Environment<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Just wonder what CFD softwares are popularly used for
analyzing built environemnt in architect/MEP consulting firms? Also which one
is relatively eaiser to use?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Many thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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