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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=218023913-10092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Antixs, et al</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=218023913-10092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=218023913-10092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Airpak is okay and is perfectly adapted to HVAC
applications as it includes fan details, etc allowing you introduce swirl,
etc. It is expensive for what you get though. It has improved, but
the gridding was fairly rough and ready if you get complex geometry and can
throw a wobbly if you are doing external flow analysis for things like
pedestrian comfort assessments where you could need large variance in your
grid cell size. If you are doing rooms, etc you'll be fine. I'd
agree with Kai's comments though.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=218023913-10092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=218023913-10092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Not used FloVent. It's quite pretty from memory, it's
outputs are well suited to HVAC work and make the whole CFD (Colour For
Directors) stand up. Whether it is good for complex analysis I'm not sure and
will have to leave that to others to comment on.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=218023913-10092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=218023913-10092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>CHAM's flair is HVAC specific and there is even a link with
Hevacomp so if you've done your room calculations in that then there is a
reduced version which will let you do some basic flow analysis.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=218023913-10092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=218023913-10092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>The problem with most of these simplified tools however
tends to be the gridding which has a tendancy to let them down and so
convergence of solutions can be hard to achieve. It really does
depend on what you are going to use it for and what sort of
problems.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=218023913-10092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=218023913-10092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Sorry about copying your message below to the list Kai, but
I think others will lose the thinking of the thread and my comments as well,
hope you don't mind.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=218023913-10092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=218023913-10092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Cheers</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=218023913-10092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=218023913-10092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Paul</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=218023913-10092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=218023913-10092008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><FONT size=2><FONT
face=Tahoma><STRONG>From:</STRONG> Kang, Kai [mailto:Kai.Kang@jacobs.com]
<BR><B>Sent:</B> 10 September 2008 14:52<BR><B>To:</B> antixs antixs; Paul
Carey<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Bldg-sim] CFD Software for Built
Environment<BR><BR></FONT></FONT>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=412423613-10092008><FONT face=Calibri
color=#000080>Antixs, </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=412423613-10092008><FONT face=Calibri
color=#000080></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=412423613-10092008><FONT face=Calibri
color=#000080>Both Airpak and Flovent are customized CFD programs for building
HVAC applications. Airpak wraps around the basic Fluent
solver, and provides a user-interface that is much more geared
towards building engineers, as well as some additional functions that is
only available with Airpak, such as solar heat gain. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=412423613-10092008></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=412423613-10092008></SPAN><SPAN
class=412423613-10092008><FONT face=Calibri color=#000080>I have some experience
with Airpak a while ago, being a Fluent user for many years, I did not find any
problem of learning the program and will say an engineer without prior
experience should be able to pick up the modeling pretty quickly - the problem,
however, is that if there is any issue with the model, such as if the
solution is diverging, it is very difficult to "debug" the model in
Airpak. I assume the same would be for Flovent, so in essence I
would say they provide the easiness in "cookie-cutter" applications.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=412423613-10092008><FONT face=Calibri
color=#000080></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=412423613-10092008><FONT face=Calibri
color=#000080>I am not copying this to the entire mailing list, as I may
be talking a bit too specific. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=412423613-10092008><FONT face=Calibri
color=#000080></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=412423613-10092008><FONT face=Calibri
color=#000080></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=412423613-10092008><FONT face=Calibri
color=#000080>Regards,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=412423613-10092008><FONT face=Calibri
color=#000080>Kai</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> antixs antixs
[mailto:antixs.antixs@gmail.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> 10 September 2008
14:36<BR><B>To:</B> Paul Carey<BR><B>Cc:</B>
bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Bldg-sim] CFD Software
for Built Environment<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Paul,<BR>Thanks for such detailed information! They are really
helpful. Do you have any experience with Airpak and Flovent? Heard that these
two tools are specially tailored for built environment.<BR><BR>Thanks
again.<BR><BR>antixs<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 4:39 PM, Paul Carey <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:Paul@zed-uk.com">Paul@zed-uk.com</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN>Antixs</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN>I think
this depends largely on your budget and proficiency.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN>If you
want to go full on with CFD, then I'd suggest Fluent (<A
href="http://www.fluent.com/" target=_blank>http://www.fluent.com/</A>)
everyday. It is very widely used and well trusted tool. ICEM
is a good meshing tool, but we like Pointwise and Gridgen for it's meshing
simplicity.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN>Other than
that, I know CCM+ from CD-Adapco (<A href="http://www.cd-adapco.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.cd-adapco.com/</A>) is very good too. Makes the
job quite easy. These tools are very expensive
though.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN>If you
want the same sort of capability and are willing to use mainly text input then
I'd suggest OpenFoam (<A href="http://www.openfoam.org"
target=_blank>http://www.openfoam.org</A>) - a very powerful open source
CFD tool. You could use something like pointwise to mesh it, output a
fluent case file and then openfoam has it's own fluent case file converter
program which you could use to then convert it and process it.
You'd probably need a decent post processor too, but clearly then you are only
paying for those programs as openfoam itself is free. If you can
do it all by text then you wouldn't need to pay anything at all. It will
require you to use Linux though. I saw a pre-compiled bootable live CD
distro of this recently which was quite impressive so it allows you to check
it out just by inserting CD into computer and booting to it. The link
for that is: <A href="http://www.caelinux.com/CMS/"
target=_blank>http://www.caelinux.com/CMS/</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN>Of the
cheaper and possibly more usable programs for quick built environment
analysis. Cham Pheonics (<A href="http://www.cham.co.uk/"
target=_blank>http://www.cham.co.uk/</A>) is good value for money.
It's Flair add on is pretty simple to use. I'd still personally get a
good CAD program to make sure your geometry is spot on before importing it,
but then it would do the job well. A lot of companies use it becasue of
it's relative simplicity and good price.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN>Another
which is aimed at non-CFD experts is DesignBuilder CFD (<A
href="http://www.designbuilder.co.uk/"
target=_blank>http://www.designbuilder.co.uk/</A>). It is in beta test
stage and looks promising. It'll be great for simple stuff.
Wouln't recommend anything that uses just cartesian grids for complex jobs,
but for the large majority of jobs it will suit, especially if it's internal
room flows, etc. Should be quite competitive on the price
too.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN>Hope that
helps.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN>Regards</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN>Paul</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN>
<DIV align=left>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN><FONT face=Verdana color=#0000ff
size=2>Dr Paul Carey<BR>Director<BR><BR>Zero Energy Design Ltd<BR>10A Portland
Place<BR>2-22 Mottram Road<BR>Stalybridge<BR>SK15 3AD<BR>UK<BR><BR>T:
+44 0161 3386200<BR>F: +44 0161 3031281<BR>M: +44 0789
4098012<BR>E: </FONT><A
title="blocked::blocked::mailto:paul@zed-uk.com blocked::mailto:paul@zed-uk.com"><FONT
face=Verdana size=2>paul@zed-uk.com</FONT></A><BR><BR><A
title="blocked::blocked::http://www.zed-uk.com/ blocked::http://www.zed-uk.com/"><FONT
face=Verdana
size=2>http://www.zed-uk.com/</FONT></A></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></DIV></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV><BR>
<DIV lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2>
<DIV class=Ih2E3d><B>From:</B> <A
href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target=_blank>bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</A> [mailto:<A
href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target=_blank>bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</A>] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>antixs antixs<BR></DIV><B>Sent:</B> 10 September 2008 05:13
<DIV class=Ih2E3d><BR><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org"
target=_blank>bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> [Bldg-sim]
CFD Software for Built Environment<BR></DIV></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Ih2E3d>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV>Hi all,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Just wonder what CFD softwares are popularly used for analyzing built
environemnt in architect/MEP consulting firms? Also which one is relatively
eaiser to use?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Many thanks.</DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<P><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV>
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