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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I think the "Percent of Hours Any System Zone Outside
of Throttling Range" is rather the number of hours for which there is at
least one under-cooled or under-heated zone divided by 8760 (the eQuest
commented reports I have indicate that “The denominator used for this %
calculation is always 8760.”)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>______________</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Demba
Ndiaye</span></font></st1:PersonName><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>gaurav mehta<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, August 22, 2008 4:19
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Spam:Re:
LEED NC Submittal Template,Heating/Cooling Hours Loads Not Met</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>There are two things that need to be separated.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style='margin-top:0in' start=1 type=1>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>What are the Appendix G
requirements for "unmet load hours"</span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Where does one find the
information from the output report of the software? </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>1. Appendix G requirements</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>The main purpose of this requirement is to ensure that the
equipment is not undersized and does not result in too high unmet load hours.
Undersized equipment consumes less energy along with resulting in large unmet
load hours (depending upon the location). Moreover, if the difference between
the baseline and proposed unmet load hours is high, it can either penalize or
benefit the savings (hence the requirement that the difference shall not exceed
50 hours between the baseline and proposed case).</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>When one sizes equipment, it is done for the worse case
scenario, meaning if it can meet the loads of the worst zone then it would be
able to meet the loads of other zones. Therefore, looking at the worst zone
would make sense.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Having said that, one also needs to keep in mind, there are
various building types using a variety of HVAC systems that use Appendix G.
Some are 24/7 facilities and some are schools or offices, etc. Some use zonal
systems and some have an AHU per floor or one AHU for the whole
building. I am not an authority on Appendix G, however, to me
it seems appropriate that the Appendix G requirement is for the whole
project and not for the worse zone.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>For a large project, with large number of zones, the total
unmet cooling/heating hours can well exceed 8760. If this is what the
simulation results show then it is an indication-either the system is
highly undersized or there is something wrong with how the system has been
modeled or both!</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>As a practice, I always look at the SS-R reports and add the
unmet cooling hours for the whole project and I maintain them well below 300
and similarly I add all the unmet heating hours and maintain the total well
below 300 for the whole project. And I also make sure that the difference
between both the proposed and baseline is below 50 fro both heating and
cooling. I formed this habit when I was single and I didn't have a life.
Although I am married now, but I still maintain this habit (till my wife
threatens to abandon me!) </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>2. Output from the simulation software (eQuest)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>The BEPS/ BEPU reports show the worst zone scenario. Please
look at SS-R report; identify the worse zone- (the zone which has the largest
unmet load hours, determined by adding the unmet cooling and heating
hours). Add unmet cooling hours and unmet heating hours of this zone, divide
this number by the Total Run Hours also shown on the SS-R report and
calculate the percentage. The same percentage is reported on the BEPS/ BEPU
reports as "Percent of Hours Any System Zone Outside of Throttling
Range".</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>The total run hours in the SS-R report equal the hours the
fan operate (for a typical office building the fans run 11 hours each day from
7am to 6pm). Typically it would be ~2761 hours and not 8760 hours based upon
the following formula:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>11hrs * 5 days/week * 52 weeks a year – 11hrs * # of
holidays + # of hours during the unoccupied hrs when fans turn on to maintain
setback temperature.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks and Happy Friday!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Gaurav Mehta<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmailquote><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On 8/22/08, <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>May Xu</span></b>
<<a href="mailto:may.xu@hok.com">may.xu@hok.com</a>> wrote:</span></font></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>The definition of "unmet load hours" in Edition 3 of LEED-NC
2.2 (page<br>
187) is "occupied periods where any zone is outside its temperature<br>
setpoint". I noticed the words "occupied period". Does it mean
the unmet<br>
hours in "non-occupied periods" (e.g. at mid-night when no people in
the<br>
building) can be excluded? If I am right, the % in BEPS report counts<br>
both occupied period and non-occupied period.<br>
<br>
May<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Carol<br>
<st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Gardner</st1:place></st1:City><br>
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 2:44 PM<br>
To: Michael Tillou<br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>;
'Brandon Nichols'<br>
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Spam:Re: LEED NC Submittal Template,<br>
Heating/Cooling Hours Loads Not Met<br>
<br>
I have always looked at the SS-F report. Does any one else use it?<br>
<br>
<br>
Michael Tillou wrote:<br>
> If you're using eQuest the Air Side Summary report in the eQuest<br>
interface<br>
> has all that info. It is also reported in SS-R Zone Performance<br>
Summary in<br>
> the .SIM file.<br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
> [mailto:<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Jay<br>
Keazer<br>
> Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 5:16 PM<br>
> To: Dan Russell; Brandon Nichols; <a
href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Spam:Re: LEED NC Submittal<br>
Template,Heating/Cooling<br>
> Hours Loads Not Met<br>
><br>
> I am not certain, but I think the unmet load hours on the BEPS report<br>
is<br>
> consistent with the definition in Addendum a. The BEPS report
says<br>
"Percent<br>
> of hours any system zone outside of throttling range." To
me this is<br>
the<br>
> same as "one or more zones" being out of range for a particular
hour.<br>
<br>
><br>
> Adding up the unmet load hours of every zone would count a lot of<br>
coincident<br>
> unmet hours and could get large with a lot of systems (note this is<br>
what<br>
> SS-R does for multiple zone systems). It could be greater than
8760,<br>
and I<br>
> don't think this is what appendix G is looking for. If a lot of
zones<br>
are<br>
> out of range during an hour (say an exceptionally cold night) that<br>
should<br>
> only count as 1 hour.<br>
><br>
> I don't think that the number on the BEPS is for the "worst case<br>
zone." I<br>
> just checked a SIM file I had open and the BEPS report listed 3.3%<br>
unmet<br>
> load hours, so 289 hours (actually anywhere from
285-293). Looking<br>
through<br>
> SS-R for each zone, the worst case had 177 hours under heated + 24<br>
hours<br>
> under cooled, so 201 total unmet hours.<br>
><br>
> I have always gone by the BEPS (i.e. 3.4% or less is good), but have<br>
never<br>
> known how to find more detailed output regarding how many are cooling<br>
vs.<br>
> how many are heating. Theoretically I think you could do this
with an<br>
> hourly report for every zone and some postprocessing, but I don't<br>
really<br>
> want to go there. Anybody have a more practical approach?<br>
><br>
><br>
> Jay Keazer, EI<br>
> Energy Engineer<br>
> TME, Inc.<br>
> 2039 N Green <st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">Acres Road</st1:address></st1:Street><br>
> <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Fayetteville</st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">AR</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">72703</st1:PostalCode></st1:place><br>
><br>
> ph 479.521.8634<br>
> fax 479.521.1014<br>
> <a href="mailto:jkeazer@tmecorp.com">jkeazer@tmecorp.com</a><br>
> <a href="http://www.tmecorp.com">www.tmecorp.com</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
> [mailto:<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Dan<br>
Russell<br>
> Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 1:12 PM<br>
> To: Brandon Nichols; <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
> Subject: Spam:Re: [Bldg-sim] LEED NC Submittal<br>
Template,Heating/Cooling<br>
> Hours Loads Not Met<br>
><br>
> <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Brandon</st1:place></st1:City>, I
have been on the same page regarding this issue, and have<br>
> submitted for successful LEED certifications using those assumptions<br>
..<br>
> until I read Addendum a to 90.1-2004, which adds the definition of<br>
"unmet<br>
> load hour" to Section 3.2. The definition is:<br>
><br>
> unmet load hour: an hour in which one or more zones is outside of the<br>
> thermostat setpoint range.<br>
><br>
> Unfortunately this seems to clearly indicate the unmet load hour value<br>
asked<br>
> for refers to all zones at once.<br>
><br>
> My previous assumptions to only consider the worst-case zone were<br>
based on<br>
> the example set forth by the USGBC's document titled "Example LEED-NC<br>
> v2.1 Energy & Atmosphere Credit 1 Submittal", which I referenced
back<br>
when I<br>
> did my first LEED submittal in 2005. This document is still
available<br>
from<br>
> their server at the following address:<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://www.usgbc.org/ShowFile.aspx?DocumentID=2423">http://www.usgbc.org/ShowFile.aspx?DocumentID=2423</a><br>
><br>
> This document uses the following paragraph to demonstrate compliance<br>
with<br>
> the unmet load hour requirement:<br>
><br>
> "The worst-case zone in the budget case is a North classroom. This<br>
zone is<br>
> under-heated 40 hours out of the year in the Energy Cost Budget case<br>
and 0<br>
> hours per year in the Design Energy Cost case. This is within the 50<br>
hour<br>
> per year limit required by ASHRAE 90.1-1999."<br>
><br>
> Now, if Addendum a were not used in any part as basis for LEED<br>
submittal one<br>
> could possibly argue using the quoted precedent above. Granted,
the<br>
above<br>
> precedent applied to the 1999 version of 90.1 and the 2.1 version of<br>
LEED,<br>
> but it seems to reasonable that the implications made there should<br>
carry<br>
> over until otherwise directed (as in Addendum a).<br>
> Furthermore, it is my opinion that 90.1-2004 (not including addendums)<br>
does<br>
> not clearly resolve the issue. The ASHRAE technical committee
must<br>
have<br>
> agreed, hence the inclusion of the new definition for "unmet load<br>
hour" in<br>
> Addendum a.<br>
><br>
> So, if Addendum a is not used, there may be a possibility to consider<br>
unmet<br>
> load hour only on a worst-zone basis. However, if Addendum a is
used<br>
it<br>
> seems clear that the unmet load hour applies to all zones at once.<br>
><br>
> Certainly larger project simulations with multiple zones will suffer<br>
from<br>
> this added definition.<br>
><br>
> Thanks,<br>
><br>
> Dan Russell, EIT<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
> [mailto:<a href="mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Brandon<br>
Nichols<br>
> Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 11:22 AM<br>
> To: <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
> Subject: [Bldg-sim] LEED NC Submittal Template,Heating/Cooling Hours<br>
Loads<br>
> Not Met<br>
><br>
><br>
> All,<br>
><br>
> "Table 1.3 -- Advisory Messages" of the LEED NC Submittal
Template<br>
requests<br>
> "number of hours heating loads not met" and "number of hours
cooling<br>
loads<br>
> not met". We've taken a vote here in the office, and its
2-0 in favor<br>
of<br>
> reporting the worst case zone as shown on the BEPS report.<br>
><br>
> But we have some lingering doubts... can anyone say definitively what<br>
> numbers are being asked to for here? our runner-up in the
voting was<br>
the<br>
> total of all zone hours out of throttling range -- however this could<br>
easily<br>
> exceed the limit of 300 hours on a large project with many zones.<br>
><br>
> As 300 hours is less than 5% (3.4% actually) of 8760, we think that<br>
the 300<br>
> hours is "per zone", not a total limit for the entire project.<br>
><br>
> Comments appreciated....<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Bldg-sim mailing list<br>
> <a
href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org</a><br>
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