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<DIV><SPAN class=406391215-21062008>Fred,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406391215-21062008></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406391215-21062008>The data that you're seeking would be very
useful, but I'm afraid that you are unlikely to find them. ASHRAE
Technical Committee 6.6 - Service Water Systems is has been trying for
several years to get ASHRAE approval to sponsor a research project to gather
these sorts of data. The draft work statement's current title is "<SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">Establishing
Benchmark Levels of Commercial and Institutional Hot Water Use by End
Use</SPAN>". </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406391215-21062008></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406391215-21062008>Accurate and current end-use data are
required for accurate energy simulation and for comparison of systems. For
example, comparing energy consumption of tankless versus tank-type water heaters
depends largely on the draw patterns for a given total quantity of heated
water. Also, the pipe losses that you mention are highly dependent upon
draw pattern.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406391215-21062008></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406391215-21062008>Since the members of TC 6.6 are unaware of
current data for domestic hot water consumption in commercial and institutional
buildings, it seems likely that these data won't exist until we can get that
research project accepted and completed.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406391215-21062008></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406391215-21062008>Regards,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406391215-21062008></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406391215-21062008></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406391215-21062008>David P.
Yuill<BR>Principal<BR>===============<BR>Building Solutions Inc.<BR>3315 S. 96th
St<BR>Omaha, NE 68124<BR>(402)
556-3382<BR>BSIengineering.com<BR>===============</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>-----Original
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Fred
Porter<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, June 20, 2008 2:01 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Bldg-sim] Health Care DHW
Usage<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV>All;</DIV>
<DIV>I think 20-25 gallons/day per bed seems generous for a new
cardiac facility (supposedly incorporating E-Star fixtures) without
a laundry and with a kitchen. But the plumbing designer
is sure this is low. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Does anyone have a clear simple reference for average long term domestic
hot water consumption (preferably measured/metered) in hospitals?</DIV>
<UL>
<LI>ASHRAE Applications lists 18 gpd/bed for "nursing homes," including
their kitchens, but without "heavy laundry" and with the caveat
that "data predate modern low-flow fixtures."
<LI>A Massachusetts study of total domestic (so both hot and
cold) water consumption in hospitals in the
early 90's found 40 - 340 gpd/bed, which could even include lawn
care.
<LI>The 90.1-2004 Users Manual (pg G-32) includes some inputs for
long-term DHW energy use for "Health/Institutional" (1100 Btuh/occupant
x hourly schedule fractions) that imply about 15 gallons/day per
"occupant" if that energy is for actually heating the water and
does not include pipe losses. But the default occupancy density listed
there is about 5x the bed density in this
proposed hospital, so using it would lead to 65 gpd/bed.
<LI>The Green Guide for Health Care has about 60 separate occupancy
categories with varying DHW rates, occupant densities and
schedules; all the DHW rates are also in Btuh/person and vary from
0-1000 Btuh/person, typically 600 Btuh. These are supposedly taken from
"90.1-2001 ECB Supplement Tables 7.1A & 7.1B" which are not in the body
of 90.1-2001.</LI></UL>
<DIV>And I'm trying to separate energy use due to consumption
and energy use due to pipe heat losses. I think I searched Transactions
recently and did not find anything new regarding healthcare DHW. At this
point I don't care about peak hours, or instant demand, just long term
average.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks if you can help;</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Fred Porter</DIV>
<DIV>AEC</DIV>
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