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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Eric, for LEED, your case of a
proposed geothermal design against an appendix G baseline wouldn’t have
to involve the district energy since the baseline only has district energy if
the proposed design also does.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>A comparison of geothermal to
district energy would be on your own terms to decide which system to recommend
as far as client economics. For LEED, you would use the new 2-Step system
for your points, which would use a different baseline than in the geothermal
case.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Paul, I agree with your
interpretation about earning two points in Step 1 compared to earning one or no
points under step 2 when considering district energy plant efficiencies.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>In effect, this document gives you
the opportunity to certify your project by doing the best you can with an
existing district energy plant where you might otherwise be excluded from LEED
certification if you were forced to include it. At the same time,
allowing those who have more efficient district energy systems to take credit.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>David<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
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<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Riemer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 10, 2008 9:20 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Eric Youngson'; bldg-sim<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Required Treatment of District Thermal Energy in
LEED-NC version 2.2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Eric,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>I believe this document as written applies only if the project
utilizes district energy and so if you are not using district energy,
Tables G3.1.1A & B stand.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>According to the document, feedback should go to <a
href="mailto:leedinfo@usgbc.org">leedinfo@usgbc.org</a> and I have
just submitted the following questions:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Does Table 4 direct the comparison of all district energy cooling
against electric cooling?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Does Table 4 direct the comparison of all district energy heating
against natural gas or oil fired heating?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Is the intent to model the district energy system
with the utility rates that it actually operates under?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Are the project's saving adjusted lower if the proposed or
default district energy system efficiency is lower than the baseline system
efficiency?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Worded another way:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Does the project receive Step 2's point value whether it
is higher or lower than Step 1 within the bounds of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>1) maximum of 4 additional points by Step 2 over Step 1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>2) 2 points shown in Step 1 (because if Step 1 shows
2 or more points and Step 2 shows less than 2 points,
then the project would elect not to pursue more than the minimum and thus
not document Step 2)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>I encourage others to share their questions or feedback while the
document is new. Also, ASHRAE's 90.1 ECB committee is working on
addressing the same issue which presumably will result in a publicly
reviewable proposed addenda.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Paul Riemer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Dunham</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Eric
Youngson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 09, 2008 4:32 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> bldg-sim<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Required Treatment of District Thermal Energy in
LEED-NC version 2.2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>SIM List,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>
Does anyone have an opinion on whether this document will help to allow a
direct comparison between installing a geothermal plant rather than connecting
to an existing steam plant in a campus situation (University).`<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:.5in'>As I’ve read it so far this
type of comparison is what the document is intended to address, however upon
closer reading the actual energy study requirements for Step 2 (Aggregate
building / DES scenario) energy model the comparison requires a “virtual
on-site hot water / chiller” for the proposed case model rather than
comparing the central plant in the baseline model to an “as
designed” model such as is the case in Step 1.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:.5in'>Any thoughts on this discrepancy?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=left>
<tr>
<td rowspan=2 style='padding:1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;
mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
column;mso-height-rule:exactly'><a
href="http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?1psKUPuX9JdZZWXPPxI04JLB_whB3_zjBYdTWXabP3OtS7ztPp0Z0ynF9kKgGT2TQ1hYGjFRougrAuxa17w09Jd5NBASyCyPtwsyyMrupdwLQzh0qmNAZ0ynF9kQKCy05-bdOzW1Ew1cvSqLMCq8aKCy0eBispmCq80ij-aKDCy0qxYi9oQgiwq80Gd3gsn1wAq83fNFaI3h0DOpKvxYY1NJ4SCrjvvuKYYYr1Fx9"><span
style='text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=62 height=62
id="_x0000_i1027" src="cid:image001.jpg@01C8CB0B.936F8FE0"
alt="http://www.pae-engineers.com/images/PAElogobug.gif"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=bottom style='padding:1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;
mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
column;mso-height-rule:exactly'><b>Eric Youngson </b><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td rowspan=2 style='padding:1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;
mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
column;mso-height-rule:exactly'><img border=0 width=1 height=55
id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image002.png@01C8CB0B.936F8FE0"
alt="http://www.pae-engineers.com/images/spc1blk.gif"><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=bottom style='padding:1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;
mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
column;mso-height-rule:exactly'><b>PAE Consulting Engineers, Inc.</b> <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td rowspan=2 style='padding:1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;
mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
column;mso-height-rule:exactly'><img border=0 width=1 height=55
id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image002.png@01C8CB0B.936F8FE0"
alt="http://www.pae-engineers.com/images/spc1blk.gif"><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;
mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
column;mso-height-rule:exactly'>503.226.2921 Main<br>
503.542.0567 Direct<br>
503.226.2930 Fax<br>
ericy@pae-engineers.com <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=top style='padding:1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;
mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
column;mso-height-rule:exactly'>Mechanical <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=top style='padding:1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;
mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
column;mso-height-rule:exactly'>808 SW Third Avenue - Suite 300<br>
Portland, OR 97204-2426<br>
www.pae-engineers.com <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan=6 style='padding:1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt 1.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;mso-element:frame;
mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:
paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly'>inspire interpret integrate
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Riemer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 04, 2008 11:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> bldg-sim<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] Required Treatment of District Thermal Energy in
LEED-NC version 2.2<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Recommended summer reading: <a
href="http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?2OVtNCZSjqrXXRTDD3pesRG9pxjCW4i5K00Uc4WC1uh_Y3MYA7lISHY9xEssMyesdTWXabP3OtS7ztPp0Z0ynF9kKgGT2TQ1hYGjFRougrAuxa17w09Jd5NBASyCyPtwsyyMrupdwLQzh0qmNAZ0ynF9kQKCy05-bdOzW1Ew1cvSqLMCq8aKCy0eBispmCq80ij-aKDCy0qxYi9oQgiwq80Gd3gsn1wAq83fNFaI3h0DOpKvxYY1NJcSCrjvvuKYYYr1Fx9">https://www.usgbc.org/ShowFile.aspx?DocumentID=4176</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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</blockquote>
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