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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=750324419-18042008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>The issue is slightly more complicated for unitary
equipment over 5 tons because the ARI 340/360 testing standard for determining
the EER of larger unitary equipment has pre-defined limits on the allowed
fan ESP during test conditions. If you are simulating packaged equipment
that is designed with higher external fan static pressures than required by ARI
340/360 and you use the as-designed fan power or fan power allowed by
ASHRAE90.1 for calculating "Cooling-Only" EER, you will
over-estimate cooling energy savings. This issues applies to Appendix G
baseline systems 3,4,5 and 7 and any as-designed equipment whose
performance is covered by ARI 340/360 (see minimum efficiency tables
in Chapter 6 of ASHRAE 90). </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=750324419-18042008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=750324419-18042008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>For packaged equipment over 5 tons you should estimate
fan power at the ARI 340/360 test conditions when separating EER into fan
and cooling energy components rather than using rated fan power or the ASHRAE
fan power allowance.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=750324419-18042008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=750324419-18042008> </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=750324419-18042008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Mike</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=750324419-18042008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=750324419-18042008>
<DIV align=left><FONT face="Arial Black" size=2>Michael Tillou, PE,
LEED</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left>
<DIV align=left><FONT face="Arial Black" size=1></FONT></DIV><FONT
face="Arial Black" size=1>P: 413-458-9870</FONT> <FONT face="Arial Black"
size=1>C: 413-652-1087</FONT></DIV></SPAN></DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Loren
Appin<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 18, 2008 2:30 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Michael
Rosenberg<BR><B>Cc:</B> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[Bldg-sim] PTAC and PTHP EER, fan energy<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Could anyone else comment on this? I had asked this question a
couple of months ago, and through some research and guidance received the answer
that:<BR><BR>The EER does include the fan power, which you would calculate from
Table 6.8.1.D and you would calculate this for each system based upon it's
auto-sized capacity; thus, you will use a different EER for each
system.<BR><BR>An important clause to then look at is G3.1.2.1 which states that
equipment efficiencies must be broken down into their component parts, such as
the EER into EIR and fan power. One way of doing this is to parse it out
using equest, capturing the correct EIR and then plugging that back in with a
separate fan power.<BR><BR>To get the fan power you would use Table G3.1.2.9 to
get BHP and calculate the fan power from this.<BR><BR>All of this, though, is
according to ASHRAE 2004, I have not been using the 2007 Addendum. I just
wanted to see if this is what everyone else has been
doing?<BR><BR>Thanks<BR><BR><B>Loren Appin</B><BR><BR>Energy
Engineer<BR><BR><B>Silpa Inc.</B><BR><FONT size=1><B>s</B> i m p l e .
<B>s</B> c i e n t i f i c . <B>s</B> u s t a i n a b l
e<BR></FONT><FONT size=1>AMERICAS | ASIA<BR><A href="http://www.silpainc.com/"
target=_blank>www.silpainc.com</A></FONT><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 7:26 PM, Michael Rosenberg <<A
href="mailto:Michael.Rosenberg@state.or.us"
target=_blank>Michael.Rosenberg@state.or.us</A>> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">The
EER does include the fan power. The baseline fan power allowance in Appendix G
from 90.1 2004 was recognized as being much too high for PTACs and PTHPs. An
addendum was issued lowering the value to 0.3 W/cfm. This is captured in the
new 2007 version of 90.1 Appendix G.<BR><BR>Michael Rosenberg<BR>Oregon
Department of Energy<BR>625 Marion St. N.E.<BR>Salem, OR 97301-3742<BR>Phone :
(503) 373-7809<BR>Fax: (503) 373-7806<BR><BR>>>> "Xu, Xiaowei" <<A
href="mailto:xiaowei.xu@ny.fk.com" target=_blank>xiaowei.xu@ny.fk.com</A>>
4/17/2008 8:10:25 AM >>><BR>
<DIV>Hi,<BR><BR>I have a quick question about the EER requirement for the PTAC
and PTHP<BR>system. In Standard 2004, Table 6.8.1D gives out the minimum
requirement<BR>for the PTAC and PTHP system. My question is does this EER
include the<BR>fan power or not?<BR><BR><BR><BR>Also for the PTAC and PTHP
system, following the Appendix G fan power<BR>energy calculation, the fan
power would be about 0.7~0.8W/cfm. However<BR>the manufacture's catalog data
usually gives out the value around<BR>0.2~0.3W/cfm, which means the proposed
case would get a lot of fan<BR>energy savings. Does this make sense? Thanks a
lot.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Xiaowei Xu<BR><BR>Engineer<BR><BR> FLACK +
KURTZ<BR><BR>475 Fifth Avenue<BR><BR>New York, NY
10017<BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV><A href="http://www.flackandkurtz.com"
target=_blank>http://www.flackandkurtz.com</A> <<A
href="http://www.flackandkurtz.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.flackandkurtz.com/</A>><BR>
<DIV><BR>212.532.9600 Main<BR><BR>212.951.2662 Direct<BR><BR>212.689.7489
Fax<BR><A href="mailto:xiaowei.xu@ny.fk.com"
target=_blank>xiaowei.xu@ny.fk.com</A><BR><BR>Ensuring that today's built
environment preserves the natural<BR>environment in which we live.<BR><BR>This
e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If<BR>you are
not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in<BR>error) please
notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail.<BR>Any unauthorized
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forbidden.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>Bldg-sim
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clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Loren Appin | <A href="mailto:loren.appin@gmail.com"
target=_blank>loren.appin@gmail.com</A> </BODY></HTML>