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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=187310813-28032008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Neal and Brett,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=187310813-28032008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=187310813-28032008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>From my own experience trying to figure out what eQuest is
doing I can report that the eQuest wizard correctly creates the fictitious
resistance layer using the method described in the referenced article by Fred
Winkelmann. The wizard has a fairly extensive list of insulation choices
to choose from so I recommend creating your underground wall constructions from
within the wizard thus saving you the headache of manually calculating the
properties of the required resistance layer for each underground
wall/construction type. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=187310813-28032008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=187310813-28032008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I often create a simple wizard project for the express
purpose of building a wall construction using the wizard defaults that I then
copy and paste from one input file into another.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=187310813-28032008></SPAN><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2>y<SPAN class=187310813-28032008>ours
truly,</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=187310813-28032008></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=187310813-28032008>mike</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=187310813-28032008></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=187310813-28032008>
<DIV align=left><FONT face="Arial Black" size=2>Michael Tillou, PE,
LEED</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face="Arial Black" size=2>Tillou Engineering,
LLC</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face="Arial Black" size=1>Williamstown, MA
01267</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face="Arial Black" size=1>P:
413-458-9870</FONT> <FONT face="Arial Black" size=1>C:
413-652-1087</FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Kruis,
Neal<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 27, 2008 11:55 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Brett Fero;
bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Bldg-sim] eQuest: Slab on
Grade Ueff Calculation (UndergroundWall)<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Brett,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My understanding is
that the PERIM-CONDUCT and PERIM-EXPOSED keywords are not yet implemented in the
DOE-2.2 engine (used by eQuest). The U-EFFECTIVE keyword, taken from the
DOE-2.1E engine, is no longer used in DOE-2.2 (but for some reason the program
doesn’t complain when you try to use it – instead it just ignores any input for
this keyword). This doesn’t seem to leave much for us to work with. *Does
anybody know if eQuest does something other than specifying the U-EFFECTIVE
keyword when it asks for a U-eff input for underground surfaces?
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The concept for all of
these keywords comes from a paper released by Fred Winkelmann in Building
Simulation User News Vol. 23, No. 6 (<A
href="http://gundog.lbl.gov/dirun/23n_d_1.pdf">http://gundog.lbl.gov/dirun/23n_d_1.pdf</A>).
The article suggests creating a fictitious resistance layer in the wall to
create the correct overall U-value for the foundation configuration. Using the
U-EFFECTIVE keyword in addition to specifying this fictitious layer seems
redundant, and you should be able to get the same results without specifying
it.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My suggestion would be
to specify the fictitious layer in detailed edit mode. That is of course if
eQuest isn’t already doing something behind the scenes to calculate this
layer.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri color=navy size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: navy">Neal Kruis</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Century Gothic" color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">Center for
Buildings and Thermal Systems</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Century Gothic" color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">National
Renewable Energy Laboratory</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><FONT
face="Century Gothic" color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">1617 Cole
Blvd.</SPAN></FONT></st1:address></st1:Street><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><FONT
face="Century Gothic" color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">Golden</SPAN></FONT></st1:City><FONT
face="Century Gothic" color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">, <st1:State
w:st="on">CO</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">80401</st1:PostalCode></SPAN></FONT></st1:place><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Century Gothic" color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">(303)
384-7591</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
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<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Brett Fero<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, March 25, 2008 9:24
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [Bldg-sim] eQuest: Slab on Grade
Ueff Calculation (Underground Wall)</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=doe-2input><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">I am modeling a
slab-on-grade floor using the methods described under the help for the
U-EFF. This is the described in the Volume 3: Topics/ Envelope Components
/ Underground Wall eQuest 3.61e help files. A sample calculation is
presented for the 100 ft x 50 ft slab-on-grade floor. The sample input is
given as follows;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=doe-2input><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">LAY-SLAB-1 =
LAYERS<BR>
MATERIAL = ("Soil
12in","Conc HW 140lb 4in (CC03)")<BR>
INSIDE-FILM-RES = 0.77 ..<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=doe-2input><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">CON-SLAB-1 =
CONSTRUCTION<BR>
TYPE
= LAYERS<BR>
LAYERS =
LAY-SLAB-1 ..<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=doe-2input><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">SLAB-1 =
UNDERGROUND-FLOOR<BR>
HEIGHT =
50<BR>
WIDTH
= 100<BR>
TILT
= 180<BR> PERIM-EXPOSED =
300<BR> PERIM-CONDCUT =
0.50<BR>
CONSTRUCTION = CON-SLAB-1
..<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=doe-2input><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">eQuest 3.61e does not appear
to accept the PERIM-CONDUCT and PERIM-EXPOSED keywords as input.
Instead it uses the keyword U-EFF.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=doe-2input><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">In Vol 23, No.6 of the
Building Energy Simulation User News for DOE2.1E, slab-on-grade calculations
were presented using the following;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=doe-2input><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Reff = A/(F2 x Pexp) where
Reff = Reffective, A = area of slab (ft), F2 = perimeter conduction factor, and
Pexp = exposed perimeter length (ft).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=doe-2input><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">So, is U-EFF required in
eQuest 3.61e calculated as U-EFF = 1/Reff = (F2 x Pexp)/Area using F2 factors
from Table 9?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=doe-2input><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Or, is there a way that I
should be entering PERIM-EXPOSED and PERIM-CONDUCT for each
floor?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=doe-2input><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Thanks in advance for any
help clearing this up for me.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Brett Fero, P.E.,
LEED AP<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">RobsonWoese,
Inc.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><FONT face=Arial
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">5824 Widewaters
Parkway</SPAN></FONT></st1:address></st1:Street><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><FONT face=Arial
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">East
Syracuse</SPAN></FONT></st1:City><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">, <st1:State
w:st="on">NY</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">13057</st1:PostalCode></SPAN></FONT></st1:place><FONT face=Arial
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BODY></HTML>