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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=390512307-27032008>One thing to be careful of when considering the impact
of low temperature air distribution on energy use: Depending on climate,
many hours of economizer cooling may be lost. This can be a huge impact in
mild climates, and should be evaluated in all climates that have moderate
temperatures for at least a few months a year. The increased plant energy
use from the loss of "free" cooling can dwarf the air transport savings, unless
this is accounted for in the design and control of the air
systems.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=390512307-27032008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=390512307-27032008>--Bill</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=390512307-27032008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=390512307-27032008><FONT color=#000000><FONT face=Tahoma>William E. Koran,
P.E.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>Senior Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Tahoma>Q u E S T</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Tahoma size=1>Quantum Energy
Services and Technologies</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>Voice:
503-557-7828</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>Fax: 510-540-7268</FONT>
<BR><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>Web:</FONT> </FONT><A
title=http://www.quest-world.com/ href="http://www.quest-world.com/"><U
title=http://www.quest-world.com/></U><U title=http://www.quest-world.com/><FONT
title=http://www.quest-world.com/ face=Tahoma color=#0000ff
size=2>www.quest-world.com</FONT></U></A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=390512307-27032008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Keith
Swartz<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 26, 2008 7:04 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Bldg-sim] FW: Ice storage
chilling system - getting LEED points?<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Bill makes a good point
about taking advantage of the lower temperature of the ice system. I worked on a
project that had an ice storage system that took advantage of the colder
temperature. We made the chilled water supply temperature 38F and return
temperature 62F (DeltaT=24F). The pumping power saved was pretty significant,
since the chilled water had to be pumped underground more than 1200 feet from
the Chiller Plant to the main building. The lower chilled water temperature
allowed me to use lower supply air temperature at the air handlers, which
allowed me to select smaller air handlers (due to lower cfm), which allowed me
to actually fit the air handlers into the allotted space! So there are more
benefits than just energy cost benefits…if you take advantage of the
opportunities.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT face=Arial
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT face=Arial
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Keith Swartz, PE, LEED®
AP<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><ns0:PlaceName
w:endInsDate="2008-03-26T08:50:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="Keith Swartz"
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style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><ns0:Street
w:endInsDate="2008-03-26T08:50:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="Keith Swartz"
w:insDate="2008-03-26T08:50:00Z" w:insAuthor="Keith Swartz"><ns0:address
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w:insDate="2008-03-26T08:50:00Z" w:insAuthor="Keith Swartz"><st1:Street
w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><FONT color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy">455
Science
Drive</SPAN></FONT></st1:address></st1:Street></ns0:address></ns0:Street><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><ns0:address
w:endInsDate="2008-03-26T08:50:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="Keith Swartz"
w:insDate="2008-03-26T08:50:00Z" w:insAuthor="Keith Swartz"><ns0:Street
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style="COLOR: navy">Suite</SPAN></FONT></st1:Street></ns0:Street></st1:address><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"> 200</SPAN></FONT></ns0:address><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><ns0:place
w:endInsDate="2008-03-26T08:50:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="Keith Swartz"
w:insDate="2008-03-26T08:50:00Z" w:insAuthor="Keith Swartz"><ns0:City
w:endInsDate="2008-03-26T08:50:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="Keith Swartz"
w:insDate="2008-03-26T08:50:00Z" w:insAuthor="Keith Swartz"><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy">Madison</SPAN></FONT></ns0:City><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy">, </SPAN></FONT><ns0:State
w:endInsDate="2008-03-26T08:50:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="Keith Swartz"
w:insDate="2008-03-26T08:50:00Z" w:insAuthor="Keith Swartz"><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy">WI</SPAN></FONT></ns0:State><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"> </SPAN></FONT><ns0:PostalCode
w:endInsDate="2008-03-26T08:50:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="Keith Swartz"
w:insDate="2008-03-26T08:50:00Z" w:insAuthor="Keith Swartz"><FONT
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style="COLOR: navy">53711</SPAN></FONT></ns0:PostalCode></ns0:place><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Phone: 608-238-8276
ext. 123<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Fax:
608-238-0523<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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href="http://www.ecw.org/">www.ecw.org</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The Energy Center of
Wisconsin is an independent, nonprofit organization that seeks solutions to
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> William
Bahnfleth [mailto:wbahnfleth@psu.edu] <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sunday, March 23, 2008 1:36
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Bldg-sim] Ice storage
chilling system - getting LEED points?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I doubt that night-time wet bulb depression is
sufficient in most places to compensate for the difference between saturated
evaporating temperatures associated with typical chilled water and ice
production systems. However, break-even seems to be attainable for
air-cooled systems.<BR><BR>Variable speed compressors and thermal storage are a
good match because VS operation maximized the impact of a lift
reduction.<BR><BR>A key to saving energy with ice storage or any other low
temperature production scheme is to take advantage of the low temperature
source. The most common examples are low temperature water distribution
and low temperature air distribution to achieve larger temperature differences
and reduce transport energy consumption.<BR><BR>Other benefits of thermal
storage that are significant, but frequently poorly quantified, if quantified at
all, are load management effects--more efficient part loading, preferential
loading of more efficient equipment, etc.<BR><BR>Bill Bahnfleth<BR><BR>At
01:41 PM 3/23/2008, Wyman, Kevin
L UTPWR
wrote:<BR><BR><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Content-class:
urn:content-classes:message<BR>Content-Type:
multipart/alternative;<BR><X-TAB> </X-TAB>
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C88D0D.0FE7F528"<BR><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Agree with everything David pointed out.
While ice making chillers would use more energy to create the colder
temperatures needed for phase change, they often do this at night when cooling
tower doesn't work as hard and ambients drop (in some climates) so net energy is
often less. In other words, the kWh consumption can be less as well as peak kW
savings under rate tarriff considerations.<BR><BR><BR>Kevin L. Wyman,
P.E.<BR>LEED AP<BR>On-Site Power Product Management<BR>UTC Power<BR>195
Governor's Highway<BR>South Windsor, CT 06074<BR>(860) 727-7020 (V)<BR>(860)
660-0723 (F)<BR>(860) 882-9595 (M)<BR>Kevin.wyman@utcpower.com<BR><BR>-----
Original Message -----<BR>From: bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
<bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org><BR>To:
bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org <bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org><BR>Sent:
Sun Mar 23 09:32:47 2008<BR>Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Ice storage chilling system
- getting LEED points?<BR><BR>For EAC1, the comparison is about energy
cost. The ice storage will save money IF you have time-of-day electricity
rates in place. If you are using the EIA state average rate data, it won't
show a savings.<BR><BR>Ice storage actually uses more energy not less -- you can
get more out of the ice, but remember that you have to spend the same amount of
refrigeration energy to make the ice, plus the chiller will be working against
unfavorable temperatures and fluid properties which will use more compressor
energy compared to conventional chilled water, per ton-hr.<BR><BR>Maybe there is
merit if you can say what savings there are from night-time electricity compared
to day-time electricity, or if there is some major problem with electricity
distribution in your area.<BR><BR>Your client may be interested in first cost
savings if you design a partial storage system, but don't expect any LEED credit
for that.<BR><BR>David<BR><BR>________________________________<BR><BR>From:
bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org on behalf of Sasa Pantic<BR>Sent: Sat
3/22/2008 2:21 PM<BR>To: bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<BR>Subject: [Bldg-sim]
Ice storage chilling system - getting LEED points?<BR><BR><BR>Dear
colleagues,<BR><BR>I would kindly ask for an information please.<BR>I am
thinking of designing an ice storage chilling system that would generate ice at
night, during low electricity rates, and will be used during the following day
for to reduce peak cooling demands of the building.<BR><BR>Could I get LEED
credits in Energy and Atmosphere section for reducing the cooling
cost?<BR><BR>In addition, taking into account that ice can absorb more heat than
that of water and therefore will lead to much more chilling capaciity or "tons"
of refrigeration from the same size/horsepower rating of compressors than a
conventional type of chiller.<BR>I gues I could get more LEED credits for being
environmentally friendly?<BR><BR>Please advise.<BR>Thanks muchly.<BR><BR>Regards
Sasa Pantic<BR><BR><BR><BR>________________________________<BR><BR>Never miss a
thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. <<A
href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51438/*http:/www.yahoo.com/r/hs">
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<DIV>_________________________________________________</DIV><BR>
<DIV>William P. Bahnfleth, PhD, PE, FASHRAE</DIV>
<DIV>Professor of Architectural Engineering</DIV>
<DIV>Director, Indoor Environment Center</DIV><BR>
<DIV>The Pennsylvania State University </DIV>
<DIV>104 Engineering Unit A</DIV>
<DIV>University Park, PA 16802 USA</DIV><BR>
<DIV>voice: 814.863.2076 / fax: 814.863.4789 </DIV>
<DIV>e-mail: wbahnfleth@psu.edu</DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/faculty/bahnfleth/"
EUDORA="AUTOURL">http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/faculty/bahnfleth/</A></DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/iec/"
EUDORA="AUTOURL">http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/iec/</A></DIV>_________________________________________________
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