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<DIV>My understanding (from some long-forgotten reference, possibly authoritative, possibly not) has always been that the evaporative cooling effect accrues to the pool itself and the pool heater offsets it, and I have not modeled as a cooling load in/to the space. But I could imagine that part of that evaporation does cool the space. </DIV>
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<DIV>Fred Porter</DIV>
<DIV>AEC<BR><BR>>>> "Doug Maddox" <DougM@TWGI.com> 1/30/2008 9:09 AM >>><BR></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The evaporation has a cooling effect that needs to be accounted for with a sensible source load in the model.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Doug Maddox<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The Weidt Group<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Demba Ndiaye<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, January 30, 2008 10:54 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Bldg-sim] Swimming pool modeling</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Dusko, <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">That’s also the methodology I followed for a recent project in eQuest. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">You can find an equation for the evaporation rate in the ASHRAE Applications Handbook. Another source is </SPAN></FONT><A href="http://www.rlmartin.com/rspec/whatis/index.html">http://www.rlmartin.com/rspec/whatis/index.html</A>.<FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hope this helps.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">______________</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Demba Ndiaye</SPAN></FONT></st1:PersonName><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Zarske, Jim<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, January 30, 2008 10:33 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Dusko Nikolic; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Bldg-sim] Swimming pool modeling</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I cannot comment on Energy+. However, as far as eQUEST, I've modeled a natatorium (indoor pool) including the latent load. In one of the ASHRAE books, there's a methodology for determining the latent loads of a pool as a function of activity, water temperature, and I believe a few other factors. I ran through these calculations and inputted this load into the "Internal Energy Sources" under the Equipment internal gains tab. I created a schedule based on when the proposed pool cover would be off (pool in use), and called it a "process" load. I believe I set the Latent HG ratio to 1.0 and Sensible to 0.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The results of my model seemed to be reasonable. </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Maybe with this methodology, it might allow you figure something out with Energy+; otherwise, eQUEST may be your best, closest approximation, for this project.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Dusko Nikolic<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, January 30, 2008 2:20 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [Bldg-sim] Swimming pool modeling</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Hi,<BR><BR>Is it possible to model swimming pool in Energy+? I could not find the way to model latent loads due to water evaporation<BR><BR><BR><BR>Thanks<BR><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><BR></SPAN></FONT><IMG id=_x0000_i1026 height=35 src="cid:PPSCFRJWVPCZ.IMAGE.jpeg" width=101 border=0><B><FONT face="Arial Narrow" color=#5f5f5f><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR: #5f5f5f; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow'"><BR>Dusko Nikolic</SPAN></FONT></B><B><FONT face="Arial Narrow" color=#5f5f5f size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #5f5f5f; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow'"><BR><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Mechanical</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">Building</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> Services Engineer</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face="Arial Narrow" color=#5f5f5f size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #5f5f5f; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow'"><BR>MWH New Zealand Ltd DDI: (64-9) 580 4531<BR>Level 2, Building C, Millennium Centre Fax: (64-9) 580 7600<BR><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">600 Great South Road</st1:address></st1:Street><BR>PO Box 12-941, Penrose<BR><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Auckland</st1:City>, <st1:country-region w:st="on">New Zealand</st1:country-region></st1:place><BR><BR></SPAN></FONT><A href="http://www.mwhglobal.com/nz"><FONT face="Arial Narrow" color=#5f5f5f size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #5f5f5f; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow'">http://www.mwhglobal.com/nz</SPAN></FONT></A><FONT face="Arial Narrow" color=#5f5f5f size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #5f5f5f; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow'"><BR></SPAN></FONT><IMG id=_x0000_i1027 height=8 src="cid:ZKYFUXAVPBYS.IMAGE_1.jpeg" width=143 border=0><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>