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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=086345812-11012008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>As a former Trace user and an aspiring eQuest user, I would
echo Randy's insight. The paid technical support is fantastic with Trace. I
would send emails to CDSHelp and usually get a response within an hour. While
not perfect, the Trace program is comprehensive and actively updated. With the
new Trace Wizard tool, one can building simple models very fast (although in
order to access this functionality, the initial dialog box must be closed and
the File, New and then select the Wizard ... this is not intuitive). I also have
found great use for the Chiller Plant Analysis tool that allows me to focus on
the central plant if I already have loads.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=086345812-11012008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=086345812-11012008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I suspect that the price of eQuest is a big reason many
architects are "using" eQuest. My experience with energy modeling is that it
really takes detailed inputs to get it right. I typically work on existing
buildings so I need to calibrate with the energy bills. I try to break the model
down by control zones (i.e. if a controller operates the HVAC system on 3 rooms
then those become one zone and the level of detail I go to from an architectural
standpoint. Sometimes this requires room by room analysis and sometimes I can
aggregate these control zones together if the control and exposures are
identical). This often requires a lot of paper and highlighters to accomplish
well. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=086345812-11012008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=086345812-11012008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Having said that, if I want to decide on system X versus
system Y, I can use the Wizard function of Trace to develop a block building,
pull in a sample utility rate, and determine my systems and total energy use
really quickly. It is not 8760 but gets me similar results to a quick eQuest
run. I do like the 3D building model that eQuest develops as a visual check of
the envelope input. It is really useful.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=086345812-11012008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=086345812-11012008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>In the end, the experience of the user with the tool is
more important than which tool is actually used. Over time one learns the work
arounds of the limitations of all tools or uses a different tool for different
modeling scenarios. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=086345812-11012008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=086345812-11012008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I would suggest trying the Wizard. Learning eQuest in your
spare time and asking the architects to send you the file of the building so
that you can import it from AutoCAD into Trace. Building modeling is a bit of a
slog but once the basic model is built (keeping the end goal of energy analysis
in mind through effective zoning or grouping of systems and control points), the
resultant alternatives can be developed rather quickly. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=086345812-11012008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=086345812-11012008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I am not sure how large of a system you have that takes 5
hours to run. I have run a 250,000 square foot high school with 14 VAV systems,
6 H&V systems, a central plant on 8760 and the run is around 15 minutes
(maybe its time to ask your boss to upgrade that old 386).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=086345812-11012008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=086345812-11012008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Kevin</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Randy
Wilkinson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 10, 2008 4:18 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
Sherie E. Hensley<BR><B>Cc:</B>
bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Bldg-sim] Trace 700 vs
eQuest<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Sherie and all,<BR><BR>Where I work, we also have been using Trace
for decades. I've used Trace, HAP, and eQuest. for years now. Here
is my take:<BR><BR>eQuest:<BR>
<UL>
<LI>Great for quick energy models where room-by-room breakdown of loads and
energy use is not required. <BR>
<LI>Not very useful for load calculations. This is what the eQuest
training class taught me. Something about peak load calculations not
appropriate (weather data?). I wish they could fix that. I'd be
tempted to use eQuest for load calculations.<BR>
<LI>Determine energy impact of improvement measures quickly.
<LI>Energy use reports are pretty and impress everyone.
<LI>Like Brandon said, the 3D views of the building geometry is useful for
checking.
<LI>Support is best gotten from this mailing list. Sometimes questions
go unanswered.
<LI>The two wizards to get your model mostly done.<BR>
<LI>Free!<BR></LI></UL>Trace:<BR>
<UL>
<LI>Proven and reliable for loads AND energy study work.<BR>
<LI>Able to do more detailed zone and room breakdown of load components.
<BR>
<LI>Output reports seem to be tailored specifically for load calculation and
work well for that purpose.
<LI>Energy and load output reports are not pretty, but the experienced users
like them.
<LI>The professional support technicians at Trane are excellent and you can
get answers fast.<BR>
<LI>Must start your model from scratch every time (although we hear they are
working on a wizard)<BR>
<LI>Costs a lot of $$$<BR></LI></UL>When we do HVAC design work in conjunction
with energy study work, the Project Engineer always wants to use Trace for the
energy model. He will say that because he already has a Trace model and
all we need to do is add schedules and energy rates. It has been my
experience that when you have a building model detailed enough for load
calculations, it is WAY too detailed for energy modeling. The Trace energy
calculations take too long and are not really more accurate.<BR><BR>5 hours for
results on energy modeling is outrageous. Sounds like a loads model is
being used for energy modeling. Time to re-think. Even my large
eQuest models only take a few minutes to simulate.<BR><BR>Randy<BR><BR>--
<BR><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Randall
C. Wilkinson </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: rgb(102,102,102); FONT-FAMILY: Arial">,
P.E., C.E.M., LEED A.P., Mechanical Engineer </SPAN><BR><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: rgb(102,102,102); FONT-FAMILY: Arial">v:509.747.2179 f:509.747.2186 i:<A
href="http://www.lseng.com" border="0"><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(102,102,102)"><FONT
color=#666666>www.lseng.com</FONT></SPAN></A></SPAN><BR><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(109,146,140); FONT-FAMILY: Arial">L&S
</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(109,146,140); FONT-FAMILY: Arial; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt"> Engineering
Associates, Inc</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: rgb(109,146,140); FONT-FAMILY: Arial; LETTER-SPACING: 1pt">.<BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: rgb(102,102,102); FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN><BR><BR>Sherie
E. Hensley wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE
cite=mid:405C8A3ED8EB824983B835EB43C2828101BB5DD7@s-chp-hou-mail.chpengr.net
type="cite">
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<DIV><SPAN class=105131913-10012008><FONT face=Arial size=2>My company has
used Trace for many years with the main purpose to calculate
loads. Trace has continued to evolve. However, with the evolution
the program has become more and more detailed for input.
Additionally, the time it takes to calculate results alone can be extremely
lengthy (5+ hours with full year weather data). Now that the need
for energy modeling especially for LEED has dramatically increased, I am
currently modeling several projects using Trace. In talking with a few
architects and even a third party energy modeler, they are using eQuest.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=105131913-10012008></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=105131913-10012008><FONT face=Arial size=2>I realize there is
a learning curve for energy modeling as well as new software. However,
my company is looking for an energy modeling program that allows for
straight forward input and reliable/accurate results.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=105131913-10012008></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=105131913-10012008><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have downloaded
eQuest and spent a few hours looking at the program and capabilities. At
first glance eQuest appears to not be as detailed in its
inputs.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=105131913-10012008></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=105131913-10012008><FONT face=Arial size=2>Does anyone have
any experience with Trace and eQuest? Pros vs Cons for energy
modeling?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=105131913-10012008></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=105131913-10012008><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks in
advance,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV align=left> </DIV>
<DIV align=left>Sherie Hensley P.E., LEED AP</DIV>
<DIV align=left>Mechanical Engineer</DIV>
<DIV align=left><IMG height=120 alt="CHP and Associates" hspace=0
src="cid:086345812@11012008-07B9" width=330 align=bottom border=0></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><PRE wrap=""><HR width="90%" SIZE=4>
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