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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Andy,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Did you catch the footnote on the bottom
of Table 7.8 that says, “Instantaneous water heaters with input rates
below 200,000 Btu/hr must comply with [80% thermal efficiency] if the water
heater is designed to heat water to temperatures 180F or higher.”?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>So, if you’re heater does not heat
water to 180 F, you can use the EF = 0.62 as your Baseline efficiency in your
90.1 model. Otherwise, you must use 80% thermal efficiency as your
Baseline.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>As far as translating the EF into HIR…<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>EF include standby losses, while thermal
efficiency does not. In eQUEST, the HIR does not include standby losses
since this is modeled by specifying the tank volume and UA. Since the EF
of a tankless unit is essentially zero, it seems perfectly acceptable to model
the HIR as 1/EF and then set the tank volume to zero in eQUEST.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hope this helps!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Kendra<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p><b><font size=3 color="#333333" face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:#333333;font-weight:bold'>Kendra Tupper</span></font></b><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><br>
</span></font><i><font color=gray face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;
color:gray;font-style:italic'>LEED® AP</span></font></i><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy'><br>
</span></font><b><font color="#333333" face=Arial><span style='font-family:
Arial;color:#333333;font-weight:bold'>FLACK</span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy'> </span></font></b><b><font color="#969696" face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial;color:#969696;font-weight:bold'>+</span></font></b><b><font
color="#333333" face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:#333333;
font-weight:bold'> KURTZ</span></font></b><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy'><br>
</span></font><st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on"><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>405 Howard St.</span></font></st1:Street><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> <st1:City
w:st="on">San Francisco</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">CA</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">94105</st1:PostalCode></span></font></st1:address><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy'><br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=gray face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:gray'>Direct</span></font><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
(415) 402-5840</span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=gray face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:gray'>Email </span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy'> <a href="mailto:kendra.tupper@sf.fk.com%20"><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>kendra.tupper@sf.fk.com</span></font></a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Andrew McNamara
[mailto:amcnamara@brightpower.biz] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, January 08, 2008
1:24 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Alex Lekov<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Bldg-sim] eQUEST Hot
Water Heater Appendix G Baseline</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Thank you for your
reply. Your response leads me to two more questions:<br>
<br>
1) In the case of an 180 kBTU/h instantaneous heater is it standard practice to
use EF equal to 0.80 (or some other number based on a "bottom of the
heap" instantaneous heater) as you suggested rather than the 0.62 listed
in the standard?<br>
<br>
2) How does one translate EF (this or any other) to HIR (Heat-input-ratio) for
use in eQUEST? Or might it be acceptable to simply look up the
"bottom of the heap" HIR values for instantaneous heaters and use one
of them as a baseline? <br>
<br>
I would appreciate responses from any and all - thanks in advance for your
help!<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Andy<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Andrew McNamara, LEED AP<br>
tel: 212.803.5868<br>
fax: 866.379.8026<br>
cell: 917.974.4499<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmailquote><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On 1/8/08, <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Alex
Lekov</span></b> <<a href="mailto:ABLekov@lbl.gov">ABLekov@lbl.gov</a>>
wrote:</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Andrew,<br>
<br>
It is probably incorrect to baseline the instantaneous water heater using the
current minimum efficiency standard for the residential size gas instantaneous
water heaters (EF=0.62). According to GAMA's Consumer's Directory of Certified
Efficiency Ratings for Heating and Water Heating Equipment's directory, very
few gas instantaneous water heater models have EF below 0.80.<br>
<br>
Alex Lekov, Ph.D., P.E.<br>
office 925-486-6849<br>
<br>
<br>
Andrew McNamara wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div><span id="q_1175a9a0dc0a9862_1">
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=e><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hello all,</span></font></span><br>
<br>
<span class=e>I am modeling a building with eQUEST that has a tankless, a.k.a.
instantaneous, gas-fired hot water heater. I am uncertain of how to
baseline the system according to ASHRAE 90.1-2004 Appendix G. The standard
states that for a 180,000 BTU/h system the EF (Energy Factor) =
0.62-0.0019V. So, I set V equal to zero for the tankless/instantaneous
gas water heater and get an EF =0.62. </span><br>
<br>
<span class=e>The question I have for everyone is: How do I translate this
baseline EF to HIR (Heat-input-ratio) for eQUEST? Is there an accepted
method for doing so? I saw in a previous post from David Eldridge on 3/21/07
that calculating HIR = 1/EF leads to unreasonably high values for HIR (In my
example, 1/0.62 = 1.61), but I'm having trouble seeing how else to come up with
a baseline.</span><br>
<br>
<span class=e>Thanks in advance for your help.</span><br>
<br>
<span class=e>Best,</span><br>
<span class=e>Andy</span><br clear=all>
<br>
<span class=e>-- </span><br>
<span class=e>Andrew McNamara, LEED AP</span><br>
<span class=e>tel: 212.803.5868</span><br>
<span class=e>fax: 866.379.8026</span><br>
<span class=e>cell: 917.974.4499 </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
Bldg-sim mailing list<br>
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target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre></div>
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