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<DIV>Jon,</DIV>
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<DIV>You indicate your baseline system is System 1 - PTAC. I assume this is per Table G3.1.1A in Appendix G. If you are simulating building energy performance per Appendix G (i.e. LEED), then your baseline cooling type would be Direct Expansion per Table G3.1.1B. Your proposed design cooling source will be chilled water and you will be comparing it to a baseline that is using electricity to provide DX cooling. Table G3.1.3.7 referenced in the original email from Yoko only applies if your baseline system per Appendix G is System 7 or 8, so it is possible to compare a baseline DX system with a proposed design on a campus chilled water loop.</DIV>
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<DIV>Table 11.3.2A is only applicable to the Energy Cost Budget approach used to demonstrate compliance with A90.1. This is not applicable to LEED unless you are only trying to meet Prerequisite 2 (now largely irrelevant unless your project was registered before June 26, 2007 and doesn't have to meet the mandatory EA Credit 1 - 2 points). If however, this is the path you are on, then you would need to select your baseline per Figure 11.3.2. System 1 as defined in Chapter 11 is a VAV w/fan powered boxes. Based on your proposed design system description, it looks like you would be using System 6 per Chapter 11. </DIV>
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<DIV>Bill</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Technic>Bill Talbert, PE, <SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; LAYOUT-GRID-MODE: line; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; LAYOUT-GRID-MODE: line; FONT-FAMILY: Technic; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"><FONT size=2>LEED® AP</FONT></SPAN></SPAN><BR>Mechanical Systems</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Technic>Phone: (608) 441-6677<BR>E-mail: btalbert@aeieng.com<BR><BR>Affiliated Engineers Inc.<BR>5802 Research Park Blvd.<BR>Madison, WI. 53719<BR>Tel. (608) 238-2616<BR>Fax. (608) 238-2614</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR>>>> "Jon Evans" <jevans@sustaineng.com> 10/18/2007 4:03 PM >>><BR></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sam and others,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have a follow-up question related to your response on 9/25 to purchased chilled water and LEED modeling. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have a baseline building using ASHRAE 90.1 System 1 (PTAC Units). The proposed building is using campus chilled water and fan coil units or water source heat pumps. Do I use electric as the source for the PTAC cooling, or the campus chilled water? Using campus chilled water with PTAC units is not a realistic option, but it seems like 90.1/LEED requires this (Table 11.3.2A in 90.1-2004)- would USGBC consider this fuel switching?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Also, as a general survey, what are the going rates for campus chilled water and steam? I have seen ~$0.70/therm chilled water (generated by absorption chillers) and $0.35/therm for steam for a college dormitory. I think these rates will vary by campus and end use.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks for your guidance in advance.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">-Jon <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> BLDG-SIM@gard.com [mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Sam Mason<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:31 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> BLDG-SIM@gard.com<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [BLDG-SIM] eQUEST: Central Chiller for Baseline?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Yoko,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">In note 5 under Table 11.3.2A, 90.1-2004 says for systems using purchased chilled water, no chillers shall be modeled and CHW costs shall be determined using the adopting authority’s utility rates. For both the baseline and proposed buildings, you would not include central chillers and instead use purchased chilled water.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sam<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">--<BR>Sam Mason<BR>Atelier Ten<BR>sam.mason@atelierten.com<BR> </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"> </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> BLDG-SIM@gard.com [mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Yoko Matsuyama<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, September 24, 2007 8:09 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> BLDG-SIM@gard.com<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [BLDG-SIM] eQUEST: Central Chiller for Baseline?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Hi, everyone,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I am modeling a building that is served chilled water from a central chiller, and the building doesn't have any individual chiller. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I am wondering if the baseline model (by ASHRAE 90.1-2004) should follow ASHRAE specified "type and number of chillers" (TABLE G3.1.3.7, ASHRAE 90.1-2004) depending on building conditioned floor area, or it should be modeled with a Central chiller as proposed/designed model. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Thank you for your help<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">YM <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Graduate Mechanical Engineer<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">==================<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">You received this e-mail because you are subscribed <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">to the BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM mailing list. To unsubscribe <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">from this mailing list send a blank message to <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@GARD.COM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE></DIV><PRE>
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