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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>All;<o:p></o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Or trying to in DOE-2.2. <o:p></o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>As Andrew points out; many or most of
these systems operate differently than the simple constant setpoint, or lack of
central heating coil, John describes. These are the DOE-2 defaults, and will
show little or no central heating unless OA is high and airflow is turn downed
considerably. But with the very common VAV AHU with gas furnace and electric
zone reheat, there is incentive to maximize the use of the furnace, for a
variety of reasons. Also the reference to preheating the OA is misleading with
respect to DOE-2 and most actual packaged VAV systems, as the preheat is
usually in the mixed air. <o:p></o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Note that some VAV RTU furnaces can only
be used for warmup, they actually cannot turndown low enough to allow tempering
during normal occupied operation, and if the mixed air is cold, it will just be
sent down to the electric coils. <o:p></o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>For warmup periods, in typical practice
the supply air temp is set up to 85 or 95F for a while in the morning
until some control (return air, max or average of zones) signals that this
warmup period has been completed. Numerous variations of box damper control can
go along with this (all stay at minimum; open if below setpoint/close if
above). In general the reheat coils are kept off until the warmup period is
over. The warmup described in the DOE2 documentation merely indicates closing
the economizer, and turning the cooling coil off. As far as I can tell; DOE-2
cannot directly model the control of the zones and furnace now typical; and the
various workarounds we've tried to mimic it are brittle, error-prone, kludgy,
and/or neglect significant energy terms. They include:<o:p></o:p></span></font>
</p>
<ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4'><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Putting
the electric reheat on a loop to elec boiler and turning off that loop
during warmup. Raising the zone setpoint to occupied during the warmup,
and then apparently if ALL zones are calling for heat, AND if the
COOL-CONTROL = WARMEST, the SAT will float up to HEAT-SET-T or some temp
between HEAT-SET-T and COOL-SET-T. The zone min-air in the core zone could
be scheduled down to avoid overheating...<o:p></o:p></span></font>
</li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4'><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Again
putting the elec reheat on a loop with elec and gas boilers scheduled via
LOAD-MGMT & EQUIP-CTRL. Various things can be tried with AHU fans and
SAT control during this period.<o:p></o:p></span></font>
</li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4'><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Something
similar but with virtual baseboards manually sized for each zone, and
creating a virtual gas boiler on a virtual baseboard loop, only enabled during
warmup, while the reheat loop is scheduled off. Again, various things can
be tried with AHU fans and SAT control during this period.<o:p></o:p></span></font>
</li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4'><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Making
COOL-CONTROL = RESET, and using dual reset schedules, with the warmup
ramping from SAT from 60F @ 60F ambient to 95F @ 20F ambient, or whatever.<o:p></o:p></span></font>
</li>
</ul>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>If this typical practice can actually be
modeled as practiced, it would be nice to have detailed examples in some
documentation or somewhere on the DOE2.com website. If this common mode on a
common system can't be modeled as practiced, one of the utilities or states
that accept DOE2 simulation results for incentive calculations needs to
contract the DOE2 authors to implement more robust and realistic morning warmup
routines. Variations include using the central AHU furnace and supply air for
heating during all unoccupied periods. In some cases the simulation needs to
allow a scheduled variation in THERMOSTAT-TYPE from PROPORTIONAL to
REVERSE-ACTION during warmup or unoccupied central heating. Does anyone
know if E+ can model these sequences realistically?<o:p></o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>As far as the LEED/App G question; App G
meant for mixed/"hybrid" heat source systems/buildings to be compared
to all gas baselines (i.e. the electric coils would be replaced by HW coils
from a gas boiler). USGBC reviewers reinterpreted this in an EA Cr1 CIR to allow
the baseline to be a similar hybrid as the proposed. <o:p></o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Oh yeah the gas consumption shown under
pumps/aux is the default pilot light. Set FURNACE-AUX to zero.<o:p></o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font>
</p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>--</span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Fred W. Porter, B.S., LEED A.P.<br>
Senior Engineer<br>
Architectural Energy Corp., <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Boulder</st1:City>
<st1:State w:st="on">CO</st1:State></st1:place></span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Aulbach, John
[mailto:jaulbach@nexant.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, October 03, 2007
3:14 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> BLDG-SIM@gard.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Andy Frichtl<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [BLDG-SIM] Appendix G
Baseline HVAC system and modeling packaged VAV with gas heat</span></font><o:p></o:p>
</p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Andrew:</span></font><o:p></o:p>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I don't know what your climatic area is,
but why should ANY heating show up at the central unit? A VAV w/reheat, in my
meager experience, is controlling the central cooling coil to 55 DegF and
adjusting reheat coils (and VAV airflows) from there. When winter shows up,
your cooling coil is REALLY backed off (or off) and the VAV still flies, with
heat added at the space (terminal) level.</span></font><o:p></o:p>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>The only purpose you may have for a
central heating coil is to preheat outside air to, say, 40 DegF. Depending on
where your climate is, this may RARELY happen?</span></font><o:p></o:p>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Does this sound right, folks?</span></font><o:p></o:p>
</p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
BLDG-SIM@gard.com [mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>Andrew Craig<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, October 03, 2007
1:35 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> BLDG-SIM@gard.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Andy Frichtl<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [BLDG-SIM] Appendix G
Baseline HVAC system and modeling packaged VAV with gas heat</span></font><o:p></o:p>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I have two questions that have come up recently...<o:p></o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font>
</p>
<ol style='margin-top:0in' start=1 type=1>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If the a proposed building
pursuing LEED is going to use a Packaged VAV system with a gas furnace in
the unit and electric reheat in the boxes, would the baseline building
(according to ASHRAE Appendix G) fall under the Fossil/Electric Hybrid
category or the Electric category since that is the predominant heating
source?</span></font> <font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font>
</li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Secondly, what is the best way
to model this type of system in eQUEST? I have experimented with
first defining a packaged VAV unit in the wizard with hot water coils as
the heating source. Then in the detailed edit mode, I changed the
system “Heat Source” to furnace and “Zone Heat
Source” to electric and deleted the boiler and hot water loop.
When I simulated this model, no natural gas usage showed up in the BEPS
report under Space Heating, however, there was a tiny amount (~2% of total
heating energy) that appeared in the Pumps & Aux category. Can
anyone explain what’s happening and/or suggest the best way to model
this kind of system? As a side note, from projects we have monitored
here in Oregon, we would expect to see about 30% of the total heating
energy use go to natural gas for this type of system, primarily from
morning warm-up.</span></font> <font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font>
</li>
</ol>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thanks for your input.<o:p></o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font>
</p>
<p><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><b><font size=2 color="#816d5b" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#816D5B;font-weight:bold'>Andrew
Craig</span></font></b></st1:PersonName><b><font size=2 color="#816d5b"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#816D5B;
font-weight:bold'>, EIT, LEED® AP</span></font></b> <font size=2
color="#1e1f48" face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:#1E1F48'>| </span></font><font size=2 color="#816d5b" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#816D5B'>Mechanical Designer</span></font><o:p></o:p>
</p>
<p><font size=3 color="#1e1f48" face="Arial Black"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Arial Black";color:#1E1F48'>INTERFACE </span></font><font
color="#1e1f48" face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:#1E1F48'>ENGINEERING
</span></font><br>
<st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address
style="BACKGROUND-POSITION: left bottom; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(res://ietag.dll/#34/#1001); BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x"
tabIndex="0" w:st="on"><font size=2 color="#816d5b" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#816D5B'>708 SW Third Avenue</span></font></st1:address></st1:Street><font
size=2 color="#816d5b" face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#816D5B'> </span></font><font size=2 color="#1e1f48" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#1E1F48'>| </span></font><st1:address
style="BACKGROUND-POSITION: left bottom; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(res://ietag.dll/#34/#1001); BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x"
tabIndex="0" w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on"><font size=2 color="#816d5b"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#816D5B'>Suite</span></font></st1:Street><font
size=2 color="#816d5b" face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#816D5B'> 400</span></font></st1:address><font size=2
color="#816d5b" face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:#816D5B'> </span></font><font size=2 color="#1e1f48" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#1E1F48'>| </span></font><st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><font size=2 color="#816d5b" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#816D5B'>Portland</span></font></st1:City><font
size=2 color="#816d5b" face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#816D5B'>, <st1:State w:st="on">OR</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">97204</st1:PostalCode></span></font></st1:place><font size=2
color="#816d5b" face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:#816D5B'> </span></font><o:p></o:p>
</p>
<p><b><font size=2 color="#1e1f48" face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:#1E1F48;font-weight:bold'>direct: </span></font></b><font
size=2 color="#816d5b" face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#816D5B'>503.382.2696</span></font><br>
<b><font size=2 color="#1e1f48" face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:#1E1F48;font-weight:bold'>office: </span></font></b><font
size=2 color="#816d5b" face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#816D5B'>503.382.2266</span></font><br>
<b><font size=2 color="#1e1f48" face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:#1E1F48;font-weight:bold'>fax: </span></font></b><font
size=2 color="#816d5b" face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#816D5B'>503.382.2262</span></font><br>
<strong><b><font size=2 color="#1e1f48" face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:#1E1F48'>email: </span></font></b></strong><font
size=2 color="#816d5b" face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#816D5B'>Andrew_C@ieice.com</span></font><br>
<b><font size=2 color="#1e1f48" face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:#1E1F48;font-weight:bold'>web: </span></font></b><font
size=2 color="#816d5b" face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#816D5B'>www.ieice.com</span></font> <o:p></o:p>
</p>
<p><font size=1 color="#1e1f48" face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:#1E1F48'>Consultants of Choice to the Built Environment
for over 35 years</span></font><br>
<st1:City w:st="on"><font size=1 color="#816d5b" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#816D5B'>Kirkland</span></font></st1:City><font
size=1 color="#816d5b" face=Arial><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#816D5B'>, <st1:State w:st="on">WA</st1:State> </span></font><font
size=1 color="#1e1f48" face=Arial><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#1E1F48'>| </span></font><st1:City w:st="on"><font size=1
color="#816d5b" face=Arial><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:#816D5B'>Portland</span></font></st1:City><font size=1 color="#816d5b"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#816D5B'>, <st1:State
w:st="on">OR</st1:State> </span></font><font size=1 color="#1e1f48" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#1E1F48'>| </span></font><st1:City
w:st="on"><font size=1 color="#816d5b" face=Arial><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:Arial;color:#816D5B'>Sacramento</span></font></st1:City><font
size=1 color="#816d5b" face=Arial><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#816D5B'>, <st1:State w:st="on">CA</st1:State> </span></font><font
size=1 color="#1e1f48" face=Arial><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#1E1F48'>| </span></font><st1:City w:st="on"><font size=1
color="#816d5b" face=Arial><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:#816D5B'>Salem</span></font></st1:City><font size=1 color="#816d5b"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#816D5B'>, <st1:State
w:st="on">OR</st1:State> </span></font><font size=1 color="#1e1f48" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#1E1F48'>| </span></font><st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><font size=1 color="#816d5b" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#816D5B'>SanFrancisco</span></font></st1:City><font
size=1 color="#816d5b" face=Arial><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#816D5B'>, <st1:State w:st="on">CA</st1:State></span></font></st1:place><o:p></o:p>
</p>
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