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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I remember an example from my
BLAST support days in the BLAST User’s Manual where there was an example
for a simple building at Fort Monmouth, NJ showing the difference between a
one-zone and seven-zone model. (I think the annual difference was 5% to
7%?)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I agree with “the Paul’s”
that there are definitely going to be a large number of projects where you’ve
got to put in some detailed zoning to realistically model the building.
For some system types such as for a water-loop heat pump system (or City Multi
when that is available!), one of the premises may be that energy can be transferred
from zones that need cooling to zones that need heating. Obviously you
won’t capture this effect unless these areas are separate zones.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>So the issue of “granularity”
is going to depend a lot on the system type and building usage. If the
granularity “test” is applied to an office building where the
operation is homogeneous and all of the zones have the same internal gains and
same schedules, then maybe you get 2% to 10% difference or less between a single-zone
model and a hundred zone model. For the more complicated building or
zoning dependent system, it may be much more.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>As for a research project to study
this…it will be limited in usefulness depending on the number of
variables that you can account for in the buildings to be modeled. I
sense much extrapolation and less interpolation. Unless you are Wal-Mart
or a spec office developer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>David<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> BLDG-SIM@gard.com
[mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Erickson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 23, 2007 11:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> BLDG-SIM@gard.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [BLDG-SIM] Zoning Granularity in Modeling<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>I agree
with Paul's statement that the extent of zoning often falls between
the two scenarios previously mentioned. My experience modeling complex
buildings has shown that more extensive zoning is often required, especially if
we desire to produce more "honest" and "useful"
results. Paul suggests studying the issue of granularity. Is
anyone aware of work that has been done on this topic? Has anyone
made a comparison of three zoning approaches for the same building (i.e. coarse
granularity in the SD phase modeling; coarse granularity in the detailed phase
modeling; and fine/medium granularity in the detailed phase modeling)?
What sort of results are seen? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>With LEED, EPACT,
and code-compliance modeling on the rise, it seems that the energy modeling
community would want to affirm or reaffirm the approach to zoning
granularity that would best provide a balance of credibility (usefulness),
consistency (i.e. % savings) and value (time/budget), seeing
as many clients in the marketplace are skeptical of energy
modeling. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Paul Erickson<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Affiliated
Engineers, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>>>>
"Paul Riemer" <PaulR@TWGI.com> 8/23/2007 10:45 am >>><br>
Thank you Kevin & Jeff for showing everyone the extreme range of<br>
modeling approaches in our profession. I happen to think the answer is<br>
somewhere in the middle for most buildings types and analysis goals. <br>
<br>
Given the rise of LEED & EPACT, our industry needs more published best<br>
practices addressing things like zoning granularity but before we can<br>
write those we probably need to study them. <br>
<br>
Would anyone like to work together to find money and/or time to study<br>
how sensitive energy and savings predictions are to zoning granularity<br>
or other basic modeling practices?<br>
<br>
Paul Riemer<br>
THE WEIDT GROUP<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: BLDG-SIM@gard.com [mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com] On Behalf Of Jeff<br>
Haberl<br>
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 1:56 PM<br>
To: BLDG-SIM@gard.com<br>
Subject: [BLDG-SIM] max number of tracked modifications exceeded<br>
<br>
Why do you need so many zones? Five per floor is the usual, two can also<br>
suffice. <br>
<br>
Jeff<br>
BB 8=! 8=) :=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=(
8=) :=') 8=) 8=) 8=? BB<br>
<br>
Jeff S. Haberl, Ph.D.,<br>
P.E.............................jhaberl@esl.tamu.edu<br>
<br>
Professor......................................................Office<br>
Ph: 979-845-6507<br>
<br>
Department of Architecture.......................Lab Ph: 979-845-6065 <br>
<br>
Energy Systems Laboratory.......................FAX: 979-862-2457 <br>
<br>
Texas A&M University..............................77843-3581<br>
<br>
College Station, Texas, USA.......................URL: www-esl.tamu.edu<br>
<br>
BB 8=/ 8=) :=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=() 8=)
8=? 8=) 8=) 8= BB<br>
<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: BLDG-SIM@gard.com <BLDG-SIM@gard.com><br>
To: BLDG-SIM@gard.com <BLDG-SIM@gard.com><br>
Sent: Wed Aug 22 12:29:23 2007<br>
Subject: [BLDG-SIM] max number of tracked modifications exceeded<br>
<br>
Ok, this could be embarrassing, but I got to know.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Could anyone shed some light on this error message I keep getting? As<br>
it turns out, I ended up with 405 zones. I heard Doe-2.1 was limited to<br>
99zones, is there a new limit for Doe 2.2. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I was under the assumption that when modeling for LEED certification<br>
each space in the architectural design should be modeled as a separate<br>
space for building simulation, is this thought right or completely<br>
wrong? Thanks for the help.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Kevin<br>
<br>
<br>
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