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Is there a documented why to predict the run time hours for these type of
exhaust/pressurization systems? It seems to me they are quite
intermittent with a low utilization.<br><br>
At 08:02 PM 4/20/2007, gail wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">The 90.1-2004 User's Manual
states in Section 6.5.3,<br><br>
"Fans that ventilate only, such as garage exhaust fans or equipment
room ventilation fans that transfer only unconditioned outdoor air, do
not qualify as a fan system in this context. Fan systems must be
part of a system with heating or cooling capability." <br><br>
The user's manual provides a few additional useful clarifications
regarding what constitutes a "fan system".<br><br>
Garage exhaust fans, stairwell pressurization fans, etc. should be
modeled as miscellaneous load, with both the CFM and BHP per CFM modeled
identically (except the motor efficiency in the proposed case can be
modeled as improving upon the requirements of Section 10.4)<br><br>
On 4/20/07, <b>Scott Rushing</b>
<<a href="mailto:scottr@rushingco.com">scottr@rushingco.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<dl><br>
<dd><font face="Tahoma" size=2>I've done some of the same garage exhaust
fan pondering. <br>
</font><br>
<dd><font face="Tahoma" size=2> <br>
</font><br>
<dd><font face="Tahoma" size=2>The appendix G language is as
follows:<br>
</font><br>
<dd><font face="Tahoma" size=2>"G3.1.2.9 Supply Fan Power. System
fan electrical power<br>
</font><br>
<dd><font face="Tahoma" size=2>for supply, return, exhaust</u></b>, and
relief (excluding power to fanpowered<br>
</font><br>
<dd><font face="Tahoma" size=2>VAV boxes) shall be calculated using the
following<br>
</font><br>
<dd><font face="Tahoma" size=2>formulas:…."<br>
</font><br>
<dd><font face="Tahoma" size=2> <br>
</font><br>
<dd><font face="Tahoma" size=2>The word "exhaust" in this
section has led me to believe it is appropriate to use the G3.1.2.9
formula for the baseline garage exhaust fan kw/cfm calculation.<br>
</font><br>
<dd><font face="Tahoma" size=2>I also agree the design cfm should be the
same in both the proposed and baseline garage exhaust system models.<br>
</font><br>
<dd><font face="Tahoma" size=2 color="#000080"> <br>
</font><br>
<dd><font face="Times New Roman, Times" color="#000080">R. Scott Rushing,
PE, LEED™AP<br>
</font><br>
<dd><font size=2 color="#A53421">Tel: 206.285.7106, Cell:
206.321.3300<br>
</i></font><br>
<dd><font size=2 color="#A53421">Rushing Company<br>
</i></b></font><br>
<dd><font face="Tahoma" size=2 color="#000080"> <br>
<div align="center"><br>
</font></div>
<dd>From:</b> <a href="mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com">BLDG-SIM@gard.com</a>
[<a href="mailto:%20BLDG-SIM@gard.com" eudora="autourl">mailto:
BLDG-SIM@gard.com</a>] On Behalf Of </b>gail<br>
<dd>Sent:</b> Friday, April 20, 2007 3:05 PM<br>
<dd>To:</b> <a href="mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com">BLDG-SIM@gard.com</a><br>
<dd>Subject:</b> [BLDG-SIM] Baseline for Garage Ventilation using
Performance Rating Method, LEED-CS 2.0<br>
<br>
<dd><font face="Times New Roman, Times"> <br>
</font><br>
<dd><font face="Times New Roman, Times">I would certainly like to take
the Option 2 approach mentioned for all the projects I'm submitting, but
I'm pretty sure it's not allowed:<br><br>
<dd>Table <a href="http://11.3.1.12">11.3.1.12</a> specifically lists
garage ventilation fans (and exhaust fans also) as a "Miscellaneous
load". Per the requirements of that section, the loads
"shall be assumed to be identical in the proposed and budget
building design" <br><br>
<dd>This seems to indicate that Option 1 is the only option that would
comply with the requirements of Appendix G.<br><br>
<dd>Best Regards,<br>
<dd>Gail Stranske<br>
<dd>CTG Energetics, Inc.<br>
</font><br>
<dd><font face="Times New Roman, Times">On 4/20/07, Bill Talbert</b>
<<a href="mailto:btalbert@aeieng.com">btalbert@aeieng.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</font><br>
<dd><font face="Tahoma" size=2>Neeraj,<br>
</font><br>
<dd><font face="Tahoma" size=2>I would agree that your interpretation and
your proposed 'option 2' appear to be meeting the requirements of App G.
The LEED NC V2.2 Reference Guide (refer to EA Credit 1 Calculations for
'Other Systems,' page 182) indicates that where specific energy
efficiency requirements exist in A90.1, the lowest allowable efficiency
shall be used for the Baseline. Garage ventilation is included in the
sample listing of 'other' systems and the fan power allowance should
apply to that system. Not sure whether LEED CS V2.0 has something
equivalent.<br>
</font><br>
<dd><font face="Tahoma" size=2> <br>
</font><br>
<dd><font face="Tahoma" size=2>That said, I am not a LEED reviewer. It
would be interesting to hear what others think on this as the fan power
allowance is likely easy to beat for a ventilation only system where
system pressure drop is minimal. I would expect that the intent of App G
may not be to 'credit' these types of systems. <br>
</font><br>
<dd><font face="Tahoma" size=2>Bill Talbert, AEI<br><br>
<dd>>>> neeraj
<<a href="mailto:near_ej@yahoo.com">near_ej@yahoo.com</a>>
4/20/2007 1:14 PM >>><br>
</font><br>
<dd>Hi all,
<dd>LEED, Core and Shell V2.0
<dd>A 300,000 sqft building, 12 stories above ground located in
Washington DC. The baseline building is System # 8, i.e. VAV fan
controlled, PIU, all electric heating and cooling.
<dd>Problem Area -- To determine a correct Baseline</u>: In the proposed
design, 3 levels of underground parking garage are merely ventilated with
constant volume fans and they are not equipped with CO/NOx sensors , i.e.
they are merely constant volume, SA and EA fans.
<dd>We know that garage ventilation is not process energy, so it must be
regulated somehow, right?! Plus, we cannot take credit for energy savings
from OA ventilation air (according to Appendix G). Now, since this is a
'fans only' situation in both the models (no cooling or heating) I have
assumed the CFM of OA ventilation air must be the same in both cases. Am
I correct, so far?
<dd>Using this as a premise, the following two contradicting scenarios
for an appropriate baseline model can reasonably be thought of:
<ol>
<li>Model similar SA and EA CFM as in the "Proposed Building
Model" with similar fan power kW/CFM, OR
<li>Model similar SA and EA CFM as in the "Proposed Building
Model" but calculating the fan power for the OA flow using Section
G3.1.2.9 of the Informative Appendix G of ASHRAE 90.1-2004.
</ol>
</ol><br>
<dd>THE BIG QUESTION(s)</u>: Is the second option a valid approach for
determining fan power (kW/CFM) for the baseline? <br><br>
<div align="center">
<dd>OR<br>
</div>
<br>
<dd>Is the method only meant for determining (and thus
crediting/penalising) system supply air fans and not parking garage fans?
<br><br>
<dd>Thanks,<br>
<dd>Neeraj<br><br>
<dd><font face="Tahoma" size=2> <br>
<div align="center"><br>
</div>
<dd>Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?<br>
<dd>Check out
<a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http:/autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=X3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM-">
new cars at Yahoo! Autos.</a> <br>
</font><br>
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</dl></blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<br>
Chris Jones<br>
14 Oneida Avenue<br>
Toronto, ON M5J 2E3.<br>
Tel. 416-203-7465<br>
Fax. 416-946-1005<br><br>
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