The 90.1-2004 User's Manual states in Section 6.5.3,<br><br>"Fans that ventilate only, such as garage exhaust fans or equipment room ventilation fans that transfer only unconditioned outdoor air, do not qualify as a fan system in this context. Fan systems must be part of a system with heating or cooling capability."
<br><br>The user's manual provides a few additional useful clarifications regarding what constitutes a "fan system".<br><br>Garage exhaust fans, stairwell pressurization fans, etc. should be modeled as miscellaneous load, with both the CFM and BHP per CFM modeled identically (except the motor efficiency in the proposed case can be modeled as improving upon the requirements of Section
10.4)<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 4/20/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Scott Rushing</b> <<a href="mailto:scottr@rushingco.com">scottr@rushingco.com</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div link="blue" vlink="blue" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p style=""><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">I've done some of the same garage
exhaust fan pondering. </span></font></p>
<p style=""><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
<p style=""><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">The appendix G language is as
follows:</span></font></p>
<p style=""><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">"G3.1.2.9 Supply Fan Power. System
fan electrical power</span></font></p>
<p style=""><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">for supply, return, <b><u><span style="font-weight: bold;">exhaust</span></u></b>, and relief (excluding power to
fanpowered</span></font></p>
<p style=""><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">VAV boxes) shall be calculated
using the following</span></font></p>
<p><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">formulas:…."</span></font></p>
<p><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
<p><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">The word "exhaust" in this section has led me
to believe it is appropriate to use the G3.1.2.9 formula for the baseline garage
exhaust fan kw/cfm calculation.</span></font></p>
<p><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">I also agree the design cfm should be the same in both the proposed
and baseline garage exhaust system models.</span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; color: navy;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p><font color="navy" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: navy;">R. Scott Rushing, PE, LEED™AP</span></font></p>
<p><i><font color="#a53421" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(165, 52, 33); font-style: italic;">Tel:
206.285.7106, Cell: 206.321.3300</span></font></i></p>
<p><b><i><font color="#a53421" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(165, 52, 33); font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;">Rushing Company</span></font></i></b></p>
</div>
<p><font color="navy" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; color: navy;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">
<hr align="center" size="3" width="100%">
</span></font></div>
<p><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">
<a href="mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">BLDG-SIM@gard.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
BLDG-SIM@gard.com</a>] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On
Behalf Of </span></b>gail<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, April 20, 2007 3:05
PM<span class="q"><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">BLDG-SIM@gard.com</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [BLDG-SIM] Baseline for
Garage Ventilation using Performance Rating Method, LEED-CS 2.0</span></span></font></p>
</div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p><span class="q">
<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I would certainly like to
take the Option 2 approach mentioned for all the projects I'm submitting, but
I'm pretty sure it's not allowed:<br>
<br>
Table <a href="http://11.3.1.12" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">11.3.1.12</a> specifically lists garage
ventilation fans (and exhaust fans also) as a "Miscellaneous
load". Per the requirements of that section, the loads "shall
be assumed to be identical in the proposed and budget building design" <br>
<br>
This seems to indicate that Option 1 is the only option that would comply with
the requirements of Appendix G.<br>
<br>
Best Regards,<br>
Gail Stranske<br>
CTG Energetics, Inc.</span></font></p>
</span><div><span class="q">
<p><span><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">On 4/20/07, <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Bill
Talbert</span></b> <<a href="mailto:btalbert@aeieng.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">btalbert@aeieng.com</a>>
wrote:</span></font></span></p>
</span><div><span class="e" id="q_11211646909c4dc1_6"><div style="margin: 2.4pt 2.4pt 0.6pt; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
<div>
<p><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">Neeraj,</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">I would agree that your interpretation and your
proposed 'option 2' appear to be meeting the requirements of App G. The LEED
NC V2.2 Reference Guide (refer to EA Credit 1 Calculations for 'Other
Systems,' page 182) indicates that where specific energy efficiency
requirements exist in A90.1, the lowest allowable efficiency shall be used for
the Baseline. Garage ventilation is included in the sample listing of 'other'
systems and the fan power allowance should apply to that system. Not sure
whether LEED CS V2.0 has something equivalent.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">That said, I am not a LEED reviewer. It would be
interesting to hear what others think on this as the fan power allowance is
likely easy to beat for a ventilation only system where system pressure
drop is minimal. I would expect that the intent of App G may not be
to 'credit' these types of systems. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">Bill Talbert, AEI<br>
<br>
>>> neeraj <<a href="mailto:near_ej@yahoo.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">near_ej@yahoo.com</a>>
4/20/2007 1:14 PM >>></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p><font face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">Hi all,</span></font></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li><font face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">LEED, Core and Shell V2.0</span></font></li>
<li><font face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">A 300,000 sqft building, 12 stories above ground
located in Washington DC. The baseline building is System #
8, i.e. VAV fan controlled, PIU, all electric heating and cooling.</span></font></li>
<li><u><font face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">Problem Area -- To determine a
correct Baseline</span></font></u><font face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial;">: In the proposed design, 3 levels of underground parking garage
are merely ventilated with constant volume fans and they are not equipped
with CO/NOx sensors , i.e. they are merely constant volume, SA and EA
fans.</span></font></li>
<li><font face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">We know that garage ventilation is not process
energy, so it must be regulated somehow, right?! Plus, we cannot take
credit for energy savings from OA ventilation air (according to Appendix
G). Now, since this is a 'fans only' situation in both the models (no
cooling or heating) I have assumed the CFM of OA ventilation air must be
the same in both cases. Am I correct, so far? </span></font></li>
<li><font face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">Using this as a premise, the following two
contradicting scenarios for an appropriate baseline model can
reasonably be thought of:</span></font></li>
</ul>
<ul type="disc">
<ol start="1" type="1">
<li><font face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">Model similar SA and EA CFM as
in the "Proposed Building Model" with similar fan power kW/CFM,
OR</span></font></li>
<li><font face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">Model similar SA and EA CFM as
in the "Proposed Building Model" but calculating the fan power
for the OA flow using Section G3.1.2.9 of the Informative Appendix G of
ASHRAE 90.1-2004.</span></font></li>
</ol>
</ul>
<p><u><font face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">THE BIG QUESTION(s)</span></font></u><font face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial;">: Is the second option a valid approach for
determining fan power (kW/CFM) for the baseline? </span></font></p>
<p style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">OR</span></font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">Is the method only meant for
determining (and thus crediting/penalising) system supply air fans and not
parking garage fans? <br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Neeraj</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
<div style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">
<hr align="center" size="1" width="100%">
</span></font></div>
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