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<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>I’ve done some of the same garage
exhaust fan pondering. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>The appendix G language is as
follows:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>“G3.1.2.9 Supply Fan Power. System
fan electrical power<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>for supply, return, <b><u><span
style='font-weight:bold'>exhaust</span></u></b>, and relief (excluding power to
fanpowered<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>VAV boxes) shall be calculated
using the following<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>formulas:….”<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>The word “exhaust” in this section has led me
to believe it is appropriate to use the G3.1.2.9 formula for the baseline garage
exhaust fan kw/cfm calculation.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>I also agree the design cfm should be the same in both the proposed
and baseline garage exhaust system models.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>R. <u1:PersonName style="BACKGROUND-POSITION: left bottom; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(res://ietag.dll/#34/#1001); BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x" tabIndex="0" u2:st="on"><st1:PersonName
w:st="on">Scott Rushing</u1:PersonName></st1:PersonName>, PE, LEED™AP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><font size=2 color="#a53421" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#A53421;font-style:italic'>Tel:
206.285.7106, Cell: 206.321.3300<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><i><font size=2 color="#a53421" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#A53421;font-weight:bold;
font-style:italic'>Rushing Company<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
BLDG-SIM@gard.com [mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>gail<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, April 20, 2007 3:05
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> BLDG-SIM@gard.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [BLDG-SIM] Baseline for
Garage Ventilation using Performance Rating Method, LEED-CS 2.0</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>I would certainly like to
take the Option 2 approach mentioned for all the projects I'm submitting, but
I'm pretty sure it's not allowed:<br>
<br>
Table <a href="http://11.3.1.12">11.3.1.12</a> specifically lists garage
ventilation fans (and exhaust fans also) as a "Miscellaneous
load". Per the requirements of that section, the loads "shall
be assumed to be identical in the proposed and budget building design" <br>
<br>
This seems to indicate that Option 1 is the only option that would comply with
the requirements of Appendix G.<br>
<br>
Best Regards,<br>
Gail Stranske<br>
CTG Energetics, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmailquote><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On 4/20/07, <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Bill
Talbert</span></b> <<a href="mailto:btalbert@aeieng.com">btalbert@aeieng.com</a>>
wrote:</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='margin-left:2.4pt;margin-top:2.4pt;margin-right:2.4pt;margin-bottom:
.6pt;font-size-adjust: none;font-stretch: normal'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>Neeraj,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>I would agree that your interpretation and your
proposed 'option 2' appear to be meeting the requirements of App G. The LEED
NC V2.2 Reference Guide (refer to EA Credit 1 Calculations for 'Other
Systems,' page 182) indicates that where specific energy efficiency
requirements exist in A90.1, the lowest allowable efficiency shall be used for
the Baseline. Garage ventilation is included in the sample listing of 'other'
systems and the fan power allowance should apply to that system. Not sure
whether LEED CS V2.0 has something equivalent.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>That said, I am not a LEED reviewer. It would be
interesting to hear what others think on this as the fan power allowance is
likely easy to beat for a ventilation only system where system pressure
drop is minimal. I would expect that the intent of App G may not be
to 'credit' these types of systems. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>Bill Talbert, AEI<br>
<br>
>>> neeraj <<a href="mailto:near_ej@yahoo.com" target="_blank">near_ej@yahoo.com</a>>
4/20/2007 1:14 PM >>><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<ul type=disc>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>LEED, Core and Shell V2.0<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>A 300,000 sqft building, 12 stories above ground
located in <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Washington</st1:City> <st1:State
w:st="on">DC</st1:State></st1:place>. The baseline building is System #
8, i.e. VAV fan controlled, PIU, all electric heating and cooling.<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><u><font size=3 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Problem Area -- To determine a
correct Baseline</span></font></u><font face=Arial><span style='font-family:
Arial'>: In the proposed design, 3 levels of underground parking garage
are merely ventilated with constant volume fans and they are not equipped
with CO/NOx sensors , i.e. they are merely constant volume, SA and EA
fans.<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>We know that garage ventilation is not process
energy, so it must be regulated somehow, right?! Plus, we cannot take
credit for energy savings from OA ventilation air (according to Appendix
G). Now, since this is a 'fans only' situation in both the models (no
cooling or heating) I have assumed the CFM of OA ventilation air must be
the same in both cases. Am I correct, so far? <o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Using this as a premise, the following two
contradicting scenarios for an appropriate baseline model can
reasonably be thought of:<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
</ul>
<ul type=disc>
<ol start=1 type=1>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><font size=3 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Model similar SA and EA CFM as
in the "Proposed Building Model" with similar fan power kW/CFM,
OR<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><font size=3 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Model similar SA and EA CFM as
in the "Proposed Building Model" but calculating the fan power
for the OA flow using Section G3.1.2.9 of the Informative Appendix G of
ASHRAE 90.1-2004.<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
</ol>
</ul>
<p class=MsoNormal><u><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>THE BIG QUESTION(s)</span></font></u><font face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial'>: Is the second option a valid approach for
determining fan power (kW/CFM) for the baseline? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>OR<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Is the method only meant for
determining (and thus crediting/penalising) system supply air fans and not
parking garage fans? <br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Neeraj<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car"
smell?<br>
Check out <a
href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http:/autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=X3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM-"
target="_blank">new cars at Yahoo! Autos.</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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