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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=857182621-17042007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>The baseline building is rotated to negate the effects of
orientation, ie, you get the benefit in your proposed design for GOOD site
orientation. One of the least expensive energy saving strategies is to
orient your building correctly, and if you have a good aspect ratio the effects
are even better. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=857182621-17042007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=857182621-17042007><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2>Of course there are other issues that go into site
selection, but for those project teams that are looking at the design
holistically, they get the benefit.<SPAN
class=894040214-18042007> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=857182621-17042007><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=894040214-18042007></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=857182621-17042007><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN class=894040214-18042007>I would put forth that
many more than 10% of commercial buildings have lots of site flexibility.
Remember about 80% of commercial construction is 3 stories or less and is
being built in low density collar
counties. </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV align=left>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" align=left><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><FONT
size=2>Leonard Sciarra, AIA, LEED ap<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><FONT
size=2>312.577.6580 (Dir)</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><FONT
size=2>G E N S L E R | Architecture & Design Worldwide</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><FONT
size=2>30 West Monroe Street<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><FONT
size=2>Chicago IL, 60603<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><FONT
size=2>312.456.0123<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><FONT
size=2>leonard_sciarra@gensler.com <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=076150423-17042007><FONT
face="Lucida Console" color=#0000ff size=2>Thanks Bill & Bing for your
replies,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=076150423-17042007><FONT
face="Lucida Console" color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=076150423-17042007><FONT
face="Lucida Console" color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2>Previously I
started this topic going again <SPAN class=076150423-17042007>with a
point-by-point description of some implementation problems caused by the
'orientation averaging' and 'fenestration leveling' requirements of LEED
2.2 / 90.1-2004 Appendix G</SPAN><SPAN class=076150423-17042007>; please
refer to that post for further
details. </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007>Here let </SPAN>me try to be as clear and
concise as possible<SPAN
class=076150423-17042007>:</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007>• There are, perhaps, only 10% of all buildings that
can take advantage of alternate orientations. Most are
site-constrained, or have already been built.
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007><SPAN class=076150423-17042007>• There are perhaps a
greater fraction than 10% of all buildings that can take advantage of alternate
glass distributions, however glass distribution is also often constrained by
site considerations.</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT
face="Lucida Console"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007><SPAN class=076150423-17042007>• So
to accommodate a minority of cases, LEED 2.2 / 90.1-2004 Appendix G
seems to impose a significant and relatively meaningless calculation burden
on the majority, by requiring the development of a fictitious baseline that
needs to be manually maintained outside of the simulation
software.</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007><SPAN class=076150423-17042007><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007><SPAN class=076150423-17042007>• How can we waive these
requirements in LEED 2.2 for projects that cannot realistically benefit from
them, and substitute a "code minimum" baseline oriented identically and glazed
similarly to the proposed
building? </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007><SPAN class=076150423-17042007><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007><SPAN class=076150423-17042007><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007><SPAN class=076150423-17042007><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007><SPAN class=076150423-17042007>On the last point, even
if a site-constrained project could 'theoretically' benefit from orientation
averaging or fenestration leveling, in principle I believe LEED teams should
have the option to forgo that marginal benefit the sake of the simplicity,
clarity, accuracy, and meaningfulness of the comparative
calculations.</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007><SPAN class=076150423-17042007><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007><SPAN class=076150423-17042007><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007><SPAN class=076150423-17042007><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007><SPAN class=076150423-17042007><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007><SPAN class=076150423-17042007>Thanks for your time,
and hard work on LEED...</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007><SPAN class=076150423-17042007><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007><SPAN class=076150423-17042007><SPAN
class=076150423-17042007><SPAN class=076150423-17042007>Brandon Nichols,
PE<BR>Mechanical<BR>HARGIS ENGINEERS<BR>600 Stewart St<BR>Suite 1000<BR>Seattle,
WA 98101<BR>d | 206.436.0400 c | 206.228.8707<BR>o | 206.448.3376 f |
206.448.4450<BR><A title=http://www.hargis.biz
href="http://www.hargis.biz/">www.hargis.biz</A><BR></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console" color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> BLDG-SIM@gard.com
[mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Charles
Christenson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 17, 2007 3:47 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
BLDG-SIM@gard.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [BLDG-SIM] App G 2004
question<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">As
clarification, LEED v2.2 requires the use of the Performance Rating Method from
Appendix G, not the ECB method (which was used in previous versions of
LEED). In fact, in the Reference Guide section of LEED v2.2 titled “Common
mistakes made using the Performance Rating Method”, the first mistake listed is
“The Energy Cost Budget Method (Section 11) is incorrectly used rather than the
Performance Rating Method (Appendix G) to obtain EA Credit 1 credit”.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Brandon
– when I first read Appendix G, I was puzzled by their motivation. Why
rotate the building if you are already evenly distributing glass? I am
still not sure what the justification from ASHRAE is on that one. I have
not seen anything from USGBC that gives any exceptions to the rotating
requirement.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Charlie
Christenson, LEED AP<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Brummitt
Energy Associates, Inc.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">2171
India Street, Suite B<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">San
Diego, CA 92101<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">tel:
619-531-1126<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">fax:
619-531-1101<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">cchristenson@brummitt.com<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">www.brummitt.com<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">A
net-zero carbon company, using www.b-e-f.org/GreenTags<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Brummitt
Energy Associates, Inc. helps you achieve comfortable, highly energy efficient,
cost-effective projects by integrating the building design with daylighting,
electric lighting, and mechanical systems. Consulting from early design
through construction documentation, we specialize in energy and daylight
modeling, increasing financial incentives, and documentation for Title 24, LEED™
and CHPS. 20 years experience includes thousands of buildings, and more
than 35 projects pursuing and achieving LEED™ ratings, from Certified to
Platinum.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> BLDG-SIM@gard.com
[mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Leader, Philip<BR><B>Sent:</B>
Tuesday, April 17, 2007 1:02 PM<BR><B>To:</B> BLDG-SIM@gard.com<BR><B>Cc:</B>
Shawn Gavras<BR><B>Subject:</B> [BLDG-SIM] App G 2004
question<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">The
Appendix G is an informative appendix and is not part of Standard 90.1. It
is merely informative and does not contain requirements necessary for
conformance to the Standard.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">In
the Energy Cost Budget Method section in Table 11.3 under Section 5
Building Envelope, it describes the requirements for the Proposed
Building design and the Budget Building design. The first paragraph under
the Budget Building design states.... The <EM><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">budget building</SPAN></EM> shall have
identical <EM><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">conditioned
floor</SPAN></EM> <EM><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">area</SPAN></EM> and identical exterior
dimensions and orientations as the proposed design, except as noted in (a), (b),
and (c) in this clause. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">There's nothing in the
Standard stating you must rotate the building in 90 degree increments and
average the results. We've never been asked to do it to my knowledge by the
USGBC during a LEED review of our projects.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">Philip S.
Leader, PE</SPAN> <BR><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">Director of
Mechanical Engineering</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: blue"> <BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">Albert Kahn
Associates, Inc.</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: blue"> <BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">7430 Second
Ave.</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: blue"> <BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">Detroit,
Michigan 48202-2798</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: blue"> <BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">Phone:
313-202-7834</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: blue"> <BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">FAX:
3130202-7334</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: blue"> <BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">Email:
philip.leader@akahn.com</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: blue"> <BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">Website:
www.albertkahn.com</SPAN> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center>
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> BLDG-SIM@gard.com
[mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Brandon Nichols<BR><B>Sent:</B>
Tuesday, April 17, 2007 3:12 PM<BR><B>To:</B> BLDG-SIM@gard.com<BR><B>Cc:</B>
Shawn Gavras<BR><B>Subject:</B> [BLDG-SIM] App G 2004
question</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">All,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">This is an old thread,
but one I thought worth revisiting to see if there have been any
developments. Specifically we are preparing a LEED Silver project for
submittal, and while we understand he intent of the Appendix G
'multiple-orientation' and 'fenestration-leveling' requirements, our
evaluation is that they impose extensive calculation requirements for
arguably marginal returns on accuracy.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">In the case of our
specific building (as I would suspect the case of 90%+ of all buildings) there's
simply no latitude to change the orientation. Similarly with glass
distribution, the lobby and entryway have the flexibility to be on one side and
one side only of the building, and thus distributing the glass equally amongst
all facets for the baseline model seems to add an unnecessary level of
abstraction to the comparative analyses.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Does imposing the
requirement for analysts to spend considerable effort developing
fictitious baselines based on building orientations and glass distributions that
have 0% chance of construction seem to be a reasonable requisite for LEED
project certifications? What I mean by 'considerable effort'
is:</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">• That the all
baseline numbers for each of the four orientations would need to be extracted
from the analysis software, averaged on a spreadsheet, and a similar
extraction done for all subsequent energy efficiency measure (EEM)
comparisons. Posting these numbers from analysis software to spreadsheets
would be both time-consuming and introduce another level of potential error, and
thus require additional
error-checking. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">• That a new
building would need to be developed, with glass redistributed equally amongst
all facets, for the four-point orientation exercise described
above. Again, while this may sound reasonable from a theoretical
standpoint, practically speaking this requirement serves to decouple
the baseline from glazing-dependent energy efficiency measures. How
meaningful is changing the U-value or shading coefficient of the glass
in an EEM in comparison to a fictitious baseline, when the glass distribution is
crucial to determining whether or not the measure is cost-effective? As
with building orientations, posting these numbers from analysis software to
spreadsheets would be both time-consuming and additionally
error-prone. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">All to fulfill the
requirement of deriving a fictitious baseline for use in the comparative
analyses -- no doubt these requirements were incorporated with good intention,
but practical implementation considerations seem to have not been considered
carefully enough.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Further, we find the
concept of comparing proposed energy efficiency measures to a "code
minimum" baseline building, oriented identically and glazed similarly to
each of the EEMs, to be intuitively more meaningful to both
the owner and project team (and thus presumably to the LEED reviewer)
than comparison to a fictitious baseline. This approach allows the
baseline to reside in the analysis software, and EEM comparisons accomplished
using the built-in 'parametric run' features of the analysis software (eQuest
and others) to reduce the time-consuming error-prone tediousness of extracting
and posting numbers to a spreadsheet for comparative
evaluation.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Has anyone had success in
obtaining LEED project approval when excepting these 'building orientation
averaging' and 'glazing-area leveling' requirements? What is required
in terms of the LEED application to waive these
requirements?</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Also, does anyone know if
these requirements have been identified for relaxation or revision in the
next LEED update?</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Regards</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">Brandon Nichols,
PE<BR>Mechanical<BR>HARGIS ENGINEERS<BR>600 Stewart St<BR>Suite 1000<BR>Seattle,
WA 98101<BR>d | 206.436.0400 c | 206.228.8707<BR>o | 206.448.3376 f |
206.448.4450<BR><A
href="http://www.hargis.biz">www.hargis.biz</A></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P
class=MsoNormal>_________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>At 08:41 AM 1/24/2006, Bill
Bahnfleth wrote:<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Modeling the building in the specified orientations and
averaging gives an orientation-neutral baseline.<BR><BR>Appendix G has been
developed with substantial input from experts at PNNL and after discussions with
USGBC. Glad to hear that modelers are ignoring whatever they don't understand or
find inconvenient.<BR><BR>Bill Bahnfleth<BR>Member, ECB Subcommittee<BR><BR>At
09:42 PM 1/23/2006, Peter Alspach wrote:<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 12pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><PRE> A bit of a throw-back to the old 1989 version then?<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE><o:p> </o:p></PRE><PRE>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>From: Kevin Warren [<A href="mailto:kevin@warren-energy.com">mailto:kevin@warren-energy.com</A>]<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:46 PM<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>To: peter.alspach@arup.com; bldg-sim@gard.com<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Subject: RE: [bldg-sim] App G 2004 question<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE><o:p> </o:p></PRE><PRE>Peter,<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE><o:p> </o:p></PRE><PRE>I believe the intent is to give you a way to get some savings from<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>orienting your building with an eye toward savings. If you pay attention<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>to the sun in your design (passive solar and/or daylighting), you should<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>get some savings relative to the average of the rotated orientations.<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Similarly, you could get a penalty if you have too much west-facing<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>glass.<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE><o:p> </o:p></PRE><PRE>I'm not sure how strictly this provision is being enforced. Most of the<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>modelers I have spoken to ignore it, but that is a very unscientific<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>sample.<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>These modelers may not be submitting to USGBC.<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE><o:p> </o:p></PRE><PRE>For a utility incentive program, it often does not make sense to do this<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>rotation. Those incentive programs typically care about the savings from<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>incremental changes to the design, particularly those changes that carry<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>an incremental cost. I'm not sure how one would determine an incremental<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>cost for your building's orientation, so it is not a factor that would<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>typically be eligible.<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE><o:p> </o:p></PRE><PRE>Kevin Warren, P.E., CEM, LEED AP<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Warren Energy Engineering, LLC<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>(610) 255-3798 ph<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>(610) 255-3406 f<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE><o:p> </o:p></PRE><PRE>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>From: bldg-sim@gard.com [<A href="mailto:bldg-sim@gard.com%5DOn">mailto:bldg-sim@gard.com]On</A> Behalf Of Peter<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Alspach<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:04 PM<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>To: bldg-sim@gard.com<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Subject: [bldg-sim] App G 2004 question<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE><o:p> </o:p></PRE><PRE><o:p> </o:p></PRE><PRE>Anyone out there know the source of why one would be required to<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>simulate a building in an orientation that it is not in? This doesn't<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>really make any sense to me - am I missing something?<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE><o:p> </o:p></PRE><PRE>Peter<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE><o:p> </o:p></PRE><PRE>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>From: bldg-sim@gard.com [<A href="mailto:bldg-sim@gard.com">mailto:bldg-sim@gard.com</A>] On Behalf Of Rohini<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Brahme<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 1:13 PM<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>To: bldg-sim@gard.com<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Subject: [bldg-sim] App G 2004 question<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE><o:p> </o:p></PRE><PRE>I have a question about the Appendix G in 90.1, 2004.<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>In Table G3.1 the baseline building is to be simulated as follows:<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>" Orientation. The baseline building performance shall be generated by<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>simulating the building with its actual orientation and again after<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>rotating the entire building 90, 180, 270 degrees, then averaging the<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>results. The building shall be modeled so that it does not shade<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>itself."<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>What does --- the building shall be modeled so that it does not shade<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>itself ---- mean?<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Does it mean that if there is, for example, an L shaped building (which<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>self shades), it has to be modeled as square? rectangle?<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Any thoughts on this appreciated.<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE><o:p> </o:p></PRE><PRE>Thanks<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>- Rohini<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE><o:p> </o:p></PRE><PRE>==================<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>You received this e-mail because you are subscribed to the<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM mailing list. To unsubscribe from this mailing list<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>send a blank message to BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@GARD.COM<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>____________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business systems are<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>scanned for acceptability of content and viruses<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE><o:p> </o:p></PRE><PRE>==================<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>You received this e-mail because you are subscribed to the<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM mailing list. To unsubscribe from this mailing list<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>send a blank message to BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@GARD.COM<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE><o:p> </o:p></PRE><PRE><o:p> </o:p></PRE><PRE><o:p> </o:p></PRE><PRE><o:p> </o:p></PRE><PRE><o:p> </o:p></PRE><PRE>You received this e-mail because you are subscribed<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>to the BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM mailing list. 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<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Console'">_________________________________________________<BR><BR>William
P. Bahnfleth, PhD, PE, Fellow ASHRAE<BR><BR>Professor of Architectural
Engineering<BR>Director, Indoor Environment Center<BR><BR>The Pennsylvania State
University<BR>104 Engineering Unit A<BR>University Park, PA 16802
USA<BR><BR>voice: 814.863.2076 / fax: 814.863.4789<BR>e-mail:
wbahnfleth@psu.edu<BR>www.arche.psu.edu/faculty/WBahnfleth/<BR><A
href="http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/iec/">http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/iec/</A><BR>_________________________________________________<BR><BR><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Brandon
Nichols, PE</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Mechanical</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">HARGIS
ENGINEERS</SPAN></STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #515151; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">600
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #515151; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Suite
1000</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: gray"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #515151; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Seattle,
WA 98101<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #515151; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">www.hargis.biz<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #515151; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">d
|</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">
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206.448.3376 <B>f |</B> 206.448.4450</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: gray"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
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