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<DIV>Appendix G is the required method for demonstrating LEED energy credits and the submittal requirements for EAC1 include energy end use for each orientation. A90.1-2004 Addendum A modified Section G4.1.c to indicate that the baseline building fenestration area should be equivalent to the proposed (or 40% max) and 'shall be distributed on each face of the building in the same proportion as on the Proposed Design.' The uniform horizontal bands are no longer required which should help simplify the process a little if USGBC/LEED is willing to adopt the addendum.</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Technic>Bill Talbert, PE, <SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; LAYOUT-GRID-MODE: line; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; LAYOUT-GRID-MODE: line; FONT-FAMILY: Technic; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"><FONT size=2>LEED® AP</FONT></SPAN></SPAN><BR>Mechanical Systems</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Technic>Phone: (608) 441-6677<BR>E-mail: btalbert@aeieng.com<BR><BR>Affiliated Engineers Inc.<BR>5802 Research Park Blvd.<BR>Madison, WI. 53719<BR>Tel. (608) 238-2616<BR>Fax. (608) 238-2614</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR>>>> "Leader, Philip" <Philip.Leader@akahn.com> 4/17/2007 3:01 PM >>><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=170285119-17042007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff>The Appendix G is an informative appendix and is not part of Standard 90.1. It is merely informative and does not contain requirements necessary for conformance to the Standard.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=170285119-17042007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=170285119-17042007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff>In the Energy Cost Budget Method section in Table 11.3 under Section 5 Building Envelope, it describes the requirements for the Proposed Building design and the Budget Building design. The first paragraph under the Budget Building design states.... The <EM>budget building</EM> shall have identical <EM>conditioned floor</EM> <EM>area</EM> and identical exterior dimensions and orientations as the proposed design, except as noted in (a), (b), and (c) in this clause. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=170285119-17042007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=170285119-17042007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff>There's nothing in the Standard stating you must rotate the building in 90 degree increments and average the results. We've never been asked to do it to my knowledge by the USGBC during a LEED review of our projects.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=170285119-17042007><B><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=4></FONT></B></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=170285119-17042007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=4>Philip S. Leader, PE</FONT> <BR><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Director of Mechanical Engineering</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Albert Kahn Associates, Inc.</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>7430 Second Ave.</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Detroit, Michigan 48202-2798</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Phone: 313-202-7834</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>FAX: 3130202-7334</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Email: philip.leader@akahn.com</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Website: www.albertkahn.com</FONT></FONT> </DIV></SPAN><BR>
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<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> BLDG-SIM@gard.com [mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Brandon Nichols<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 17, 2007 3:12 PM<BR><B>To:</B> BLDG-SIM@gard.com<BR><B>Cc:</B> Shawn Gavras<BR><B>Subject:</B> [BLDG-SIM] App G 2004 question<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN class=735220118-17042007>All,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN class=735220118-17042007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><SPAN class=735220118-17042007>This is an old thread, but one I thought worth revisiting to see if there have been any developments. Specifically we are preparing a LEED Silver project for submittal, and while we understand he intent of the Appendix G 'multiple-orientation' and 'fenestration-leveling' requirements, our evaluation is that they impose extensive calculation requirements for arguably marginal returns on accuracy.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT size=2>In the case of our specific building<SPAN class=735220118-17042007> (as I would suspect the case of 90%+ of all buildings) there's simply no latitude to change the orientation. Similarly with glass distribution, the lobby and entryway have the flexibility to be on one side and one side only of the building, and thus distributing the glass equally amongst all facets for the baseline model seems to add an unnecessary level of abstraction to the comparative analyses.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=735220118-17042007></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=735220118-17042007>Does imposing the requirement for analysts to spend considerable effort developing fictitious baselines based on building orientations and glass distributions that have 0% chance of construction seem to be a reasonable requisite for LEED project certifications? What I mean by 'considerable effort' is:</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=735220118-17042007></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=735220118-17042007>• That the all baseline numbers for each of the four orientations would need to be extracted from the analysis software, averaged on a spreadsheet, and a similar extraction done for all subsequent energy efficiency measure (EEM) comparisons. Posting these numbers from analysis software to spreadsheets would be both time-consuming and introduce another level of potential error, and thus require additional error-checking. </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=735220118-17042007></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=735220118-17042007><SPAN class=735220118-17042007>• That a new building would need to be developed, with glass redistributed equally amongst all facets, for the four-point orientation exercise described above. Again, while this may sound reasonable from a theoretical standpoint, practically speaking this requirement serves to decouple the baseline from glazing-dependent energy efficiency measures. How meaningful is changing the U-value or shading coefficient of the glass in an EEM in comparison to a fictitious baseline, when the glass distribution is crucial to determining whether or not the measure is cost-effective? As with building orientations, posting these numbers from analysis software to spreadsheets would be both time-consuming and additionally error-prone. </SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=735220118-17042007></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=735220118-17042007></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=735220118-17042007>All to fulfill the requirement of deriving a fictitious baseline for use in the comparative analyses -- no doubt these requirements were incorporated with good intention, but practical implementation considerations seem to have not been considered carefully enough.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=735220118-17042007></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=735220118-17042007>Further, we find the concept of comparing proposed energy efficiency measures to a "code minimum" baseline building, oriented identically and glazed similarly to each of the EEMs, to be intuitively more meaningful to both the owner and project team (and thus presumably to the LEED reviewer) than comparison to a fictitious baseline. This approach allows the baseline to reside in the analysis software, and EEM comparisons accomplished using the built-in 'parametric run' features of the analysis software (eQuest and others) to reduce the time-consuming error-prone tediousness of extracting and posting numbers to a spreadsheet for comparative evaluation.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=735220118-17042007></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=735220118-17042007>Has anyone had success in obtaining LEED project approval when excepting these 'building orientation averaging' and 'glazing-area leveling' requirements? What is required in terms of the LEED application to waive these requirements?</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=735220118-17042007></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=735220118-17042007>Also, does anyone know if these requirements have been identified for relaxation or revision in the next LEED update?</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=735220118-17042007></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=735220118-17042007></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=735220118-17042007>Regards</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=735220118-17042007></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=735220118-17042007>Brandon Nichols, PE<BR>Mechanical<BR>HARGIS ENGINEERS<BR>600 Stewart St<BR>Suite 1000<BR>Seattle, WA 98101<BR>d | 206.436.0400 c | 206.228.8707<BR>o | 206.448.3376 f | 206.448.4450<BR><A href="http://www.hargis.biz/">www.hargis.biz</A><BR></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console"><FONT size=2><SPAN class=735220118-17042007></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0>_________________________________________________<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0>At 0<SPAN class=735220118-17042007>8</SPAN>:4<SPAN class=735220118-17042007>1</SPAN> <SPAN class=735220118-17042007>AM</SPAN> 1/2<SPAN class=735220118-17042007>4</SPAN>/2006, <SPAN class=735220118-17042007>Bill Bahnfleth</SPAN> wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Console" size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Modeling the building in the specified orientations and averaging gives an orientation-neutral baseline.<BR><BR>Appendix G has been developed with substantial input from experts at PNNL and after discussions with USGBC. Glad to hear that modelers are ignoring whatever they don't understand or find inconvenient.<BR><BR>Bill Bahnfleth<BR>Member, ECB Subcommittee<BR><BR>At 09:42 PM 1/23/2006, Peter Alspach wrote:<BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 1em; MARGIN-LEFT: 0em; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,255) 0.1em solid"><PRE> A bit of a throw-back to the old 1989 version then?
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Warren [<A href="mailto:kevin@warren-energy.com">mailto:kevin@warren-energy.com</A>]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:46 PM
To: peter.alspach@arup.com; bldg-sim@gard.com
Subject: RE: [bldg-sim] App G 2004 question
Peter,
I believe the intent is to give you a way to get some savings from
orienting your building with an eye toward savings. If you pay attention
to the sun in your design (passive solar and/or daylighting), you should
get some savings relative to the average of the rotated orientations.
Similarly, you could get a penalty if you have too much west-facing
glass.
I'm not sure how strictly this provision is being enforced. Most of the
modelers I have spoken to ignore it, but that is a very unscientific
sample.
These modelers may not be submitting to USGBC.
For a utility incentive program, it often does not make sense to do this
rotation. Those incentive programs typically care about the savings from
incremental changes to the design, particularly those changes that carry
an incremental cost. I'm not sure how one would determine an incremental
cost for your building's orientation, so it is not a factor that would
typically be eligible.
Kevin Warren, P.E., CEM, LEED AP
Warren Energy Engineering, LLC
(610) 255-3798 ph
(610) 255-3406 f
-----Original Message-----
From: bldg-sim@gard.com [<A href="mailto:bldg-sim@gard.com]On">mailto:bldg-sim@gard.com]On</A> Behalf Of Peter
Alspach
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:04 PM
To: bldg-sim@gard.com
Subject: [bldg-sim] App G 2004 question
Anyone out there know the source of why one would be required to
simulate a building in an orientation that it is not in? This doesn't
really make any sense to me - am I missing something?
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: bldg-sim@gard.com [<A href="mailto:bldg-sim@gard.com">mailto:bldg-sim@gard.com</A>] On Behalf Of Rohini
Brahme
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 1:13 PM
To: bldg-sim@gard.com
Subject: [bldg-sim] App G 2004 question
I have a question about the Appendix G in 90.1, 2004.
In Table G3.1 the baseline building is to be simulated as follows:
" Orientation. The baseline building performance shall be generated by
simulating the building with its actual orientation and again after
rotating the entire building 90, 180, 270 degrees, then averaging the
results. The building shall be modeled so that it does not shade
itself."
What does --- the building shall be modeled so that it does not shade
itself ---- mean?
Does it mean that if there is, for example, an L shaped building (which
self shades), it has to be modeled as square? rectangle?
Any thoughts on this appreciated.
Thanks
- Rohini
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</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>_________________________________________________<BR><BR>William P. Bahnfleth, PhD, PE, Fellow ASHRAE<BR><BR>Professor of Architectural Engineering<BR>Director, Indoor Environment Center<BR><BR>The Pennsylvania State University<BR>104 Engineering Unit A<BR>University Park, PA 16802 USA<BR><BR>voice: 814.863.2076 / fax: 814.863.4789<BR>e-mail: wbahnfleth@psu.edu<BR>www.arche.psu.edu/faculty/WBahnfleth/<BR><A href="http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/iec/">http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/iec/</A><BR>_________________________________________________<BR><BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV align=left>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><SPAN class=212011020-11052004><FONT color=#000000>Brandon Nichols, PE</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><SPAN class=212011020-11052004><FONT color=#000000>Mechanical</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><FONT color=#000080><STRONG>HARGIS ENGINEERS</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><FONT color=#515151>600 Stewart Street</FONT></SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><FONT color=#515151>www.hargis.biz<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">d |</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> 206.436.04<SPAN class=212011020-11052004>0</SPAN>0<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><B>c | </B>206.<SPAN class=212011020-11052004>228.8707</SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><SPAN class=212011020-11052004></SPAN></SPAN><FONT color=#515151><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">o |</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"> 206.448.3376<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><B>f <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>|</B> 206.448.4450</SPAN></FONT></P></SPAN></SPAN>
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