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<DIV>Marcus,</DIV>
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<DIV>ASHRAE changed their procedures a while back. Now after an addendum goes through public review and is approved, it is not posted on the website as an individual addendum. Instead, it is held until the half way point between releases of 90.1, and then released as a package containing all approved addenda. If an addendum was approved after the halfway point, it is held until the next full version release. This is the case with Addendum AG. If you go to the ASHRAE Stadards Addenda page, <A href="http://www.ashrae.org/technology/page/132">http://www.ashrae.org/technology/page/132</A> at the bottom of the page, you can find a link to the addenda index and see the status of AG, but the actual text is not available. I know that makes it hard to follow the current state of the Standard, but that is what ASHRAE has chosen to do. </DIV>
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<DIV>Mike</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Michael Rosenberg<BR>Oregon Department of Energy<BR>625 Marion St. N.E.<BR>Salem, OR 97301-3742<BR>Phone : (503) 373-7809<BR>Fax: (503) 373-7806</DIV>
<DIV><BR>>>> "Marcus Sheffer" <sheffer@sevengroup.com> 12/26/2006 1:39:40 PM >>><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="COLOR: #000000">Michael,<BR><BR>I cannot find Addendum AG - it is not on the list of approved addenda and I<BR>cannot find it under the public review drafts. Can you point me to where I<BR>might find it?<BR><BR>Marcus Sheffer<BR>Energy Opportunities, Inc/a 7group Company<BR>1200 E Camping Area Road, Wellsville, PA 17365<BR>717-292-2636, sheffer@sevengroup.com<BR><A href="http://www.sevengroup.com">www.sevengroup.com</A><BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Michael Rosenberg [<A href="mailto:Michael.Rosenberg@state.or.us]">mailto:Michael.Rosenberg@state.or.us]</A> <BR>Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 4:03 PM<BR>To: bldg-sim@gard.com; sheffer@sevengroup.com<BR>Subject: Re: [bldg-sim] Modeling buildings with natural ventilation<BR>forAppendix G<BR><BR>Marcus,<BR><BR>I am on the ASHRAE 90.1 ECB subcommittee. I do not think at this point<BR>that we are working on any additional methodology to credit natural<BR>ventilation. Addendum AG already changed the following:<BR><BR>In the proposed building.<BR>HVAC Fan Schedules. Schedules for HVAC fans that provide outdoor air<BR>for ventilation shall run continuously whenever spaces are occupied and<BR>shall be cycled on and off to meet heating and cooling loads during<BR>unoccupied hours. <BR><BR>This implies that HVAC fans that are only meeting thermal load may<BR>cycle on and off, and was meant to allow fan credit for natural<BR>ventilation system (as simple as operable windows). The proposed<BR>building still calls for cooling as a requirement, but the thought is,<BR>that if model simulates natural ventilation and the cooling load is met<BR>that way, the fan and cooling coil will not operate to meet load and the<BR>design will be credited. The problem is that most LEED models are done<BR>using DOE2, which has severe limitations when it comes to modeling<BR>natural ventilation. It is my understanding that other programs do a<BR>better job of this. <BR><BR>The subcommittee also thought that an exceptional calculation method<BR>might be used if the natural ventilation simulation was be done in a<BR>stand alone program and then an appropriate infiltration schedule was<BR>input into a program like DOE2, reducing the use of mechanical cooling.<BR><BR><BR>Mike<BR><BR><BR><BR>Michael Rosenberg<BR>Oregon Department of Energy<BR>625 Marion St. N.E.<BR>Salem, OR 97301-3742<BR>Phone : (503) 373-7809<BR>Fax: (503) 373-7806<BR><BR>>>> "Marcus Sheffer" <sheffer@sevengroup.com> 12/21/06 11:58AM >>><BR>Mike,<BR><BR><BR><BR>The exception calculation method you describe is absolutely correct.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Obtaining savings for natural ventilation within LEED however is<BR>another<BR>story. I am one of the certification reviewers and also vice-chair of<BR>the<BR>EA TAG. My understanding is that to date the USGBC has not allowed<BR>natural<BR>ventilation to fully count under EAc1 even if submitted as an<BR>exceptional<BR>calculation method. The TAG is awaiting the work of the 90.1<BR>subcommittee<BR>you mention to develop a uniform methodology.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Perhaps your submission will be the one to set the precedent. Thanks<BR>to all<BR>for helping to blaze the trail. <BR><BR><BR><BR>Marcus Sheffer<BR><BR>Energy Opportunities, Inc/a 7group Company<BR><BR>1200 E Camping Area Road, Wellsville, PA 17365<BR><BR>717-292-2636, <<A href="mailto:sheffer@sevengroup.com">mailto:sheffer@sevengroup.com</A>> sheffer@sevengroup.com <BR><BR><A href="http://www.sevengroup.com">www.sevengroup.com</A> <BR><BR><BR><BR> _____ <BR><BR>From: bldg-sim@gard.com [<A href="mailto:bldg-sim@gard.com]">mailto:bldg-sim@gard.com]</A> On Behalf Of Mike<BR>Tillou<BR>Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 2:03 PM<BR>To: bldg-sim@gard.com <BR>Subject: [bldg-sim] Modeling buildings with natural ventilation for<BR>Appendix<BR>G<BR><BR><BR><BR>Not yet...I have a project with natural ventilation using this method<BR>that<BR>will be submitted for final review in Feb-Mar 2007. <BR><BR><BR><BR>MMT<BR><BR>Michael Tillou, PE <BR>ETC Group, Inc - Energy Engineering for a Sustainable Future <BR>Ph:413-458-9870 <BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: bldg-sim@gard.com [<A href="mailto:bldg-sim@gard.com]">mailto:bldg-sim@gard.com]</A> On Behalf Of Peter<BR>Alspach<BR>Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 1:34 PM<BR>To: bldg-sim@gard.com <BR>Subject: [bldg-sim] Modeling buildings with natural ventilation for<BR>Appendix<BR>G<BR><BR>Mike,<BR><BR><BR><BR>Have you succeeded in getting a naturally ventilated building through<BR>the<BR>USGBC with this method?<BR><BR><BR><BR>If so, I am sure all would be glad to hear it.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Peter<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR> _____ <BR><BR><BR>From: bldg-sim@gard.com [<A href="mailto:bldg-sim@gard.com]">mailto:bldg-sim@gard.com]</A> On Behalf Of Mike<BR>Tillou<BR>Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 7:18 AM<BR>To: bldg-sim@gard.com <BR>Subject: [bldg-sim] Modeling buildings with natural ventilation for<BR>Appendix<BR>G<BR><BR>Ramana,<BR><BR><BR><BR>The ASHRAE 90.1 ECB sub-committee is working on a methodology for<BR>simulating<BR>natural ventilation within the framework of Appendix G but I don't<BR>think its<BR>finished yet. In the meantime here is what I would recommend.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Appendix G / 90.1 ECB allows you to use an exception calculation method<BR>to<BR>simulate hybrid systems or unique efficiency measures to demonstrate<BR>above-standard performance. I think this would certainly apply in<BR>your<BR>case. <BR><BR><BR><BR>Here's what I have done on projects requiring an exception calculation<BR>method. <BR><BR>1. Establish your energy cost budget and your design energy case<BR>following<BR>the Appendix G guidelines. <BR><BR>2. Create a second model using the Design Energy Case as the baseline<BR>and<BR>make the necessary modifications to simulate radiant heating / no<BR>cooling<BR>via natural ventilation. <BR><BR>3. Report the energy savings from your exception calculation as a line<BR>item<BR>at the end of your LEED EA-1 summary table (similar to how renewable<BR>energy<BR>is reported). <BR><BR>4. Include a seperate summary table for the exception calculation<BR>showing<BR>the energy end-use breakdown and how you arrived at the cost savings. <BR>Show<BR>both the baseline and proposed energy use. <BR><BR>5. Make sure the savings are reasonable and prudent for the system you<BR>are<BR>proposing. <BR><BR>6. Document any changes to the model especially changes to schedules<BR>that<BR>were necessary to properly simulate your system. <BR><BR>7. Make it easy for someone to review your assumptions and the<BR>methodology<BR>you used to estimate the savings<BR><BR><BR><BR>I hope this helps. Good luck.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Mike<BR><BR><BR><BR>Michael Tillou, PE <BR>ETC Group, Inc - Energy Engineering for a Sustainable Future <BR>Ph:413-458-9870 <BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: bldg-sim@gard.com [<A href="mailto:bldg-sim@gard.com]">mailto:bldg-sim@gard.com]</A> On Behalf Of Ramana<BR>Koti<BR>Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 4:53 PM<BR>To: bldg-sim@gard.com <BR>Subject: [bldg-sim] Modeling buildings with natural ventilation for<BR>Appendix<BR>G<BR><BR>Dear all,<BR><BR>Is ignoring natural ventilation in both proposed and baseline designs<BR>an<BR>accepted/fair way of modeling based on Appendix G (ASHRAE 90.1-2004)?<BR><BR>Part of the proposed design has (radiant heating + natural ventilation)<BR>with<BR>no cooling which was modeled as a radiant slab, no cooling, natural<BR>ventilation ignored. <BR><BR>But the Baseline HVAC system based on Appendix G is System 5: Packaged<BR>VAV<BR>w/Reheat. (Natural ventilation can be modeled based on Air Change<BR>method or<BR>Sherman Grimsrud method though I do not know how to do it).<BR><BR>I cannot decide how to make the baseline and proposed comparable with<BR>respect to Natural Ventilation (in a manner acceptable to LEED<BR>review),<BR>suggestions will be appreciated.<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>Ramana Koti, Sustainable Building Analyst <BR>LEED AP<BR><BR>ELEMENTS | a division of berkebile nelson immenschuh mcdowell<BR>architects<BR>106 W. 14th Street Suite 200<BR>Kansas City, Missouri 64105<BR><BR>p 816.783.1635 f 816.783.1501<BR><A href="http://www.bnim.com|">www.bnim.com|</A> elements.bnim.com<BR><BR>==================<BR>You received this e-mail because you are subscribed <BR>to the BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM mailing list. 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