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<DIV>Gerald, <BR><BR>I am not sure I understand your question, but I will take a
shot at answering. Appendix G is different from the body of the standard.
Chapter 5 prescribes maximum fenestration areas as a % of gross wall area which
includes below grade walls. Appendix G, in describing the hypothetical baseline
building prescribes a maximum fenestration area as a percentage of above grade
wall area. These two sections are clearly different.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Mike</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Michael Rosenberg<BR>Oregon Department of Energy<BR>625 Marion St.
N.E.<BR>Salem, OR 97301-3742<BR>Phone : (503) 373-7809<BR>Fax: (503)
373-7806<BR><BR>>>> Gerald Pde <GERALDPDE@YAHOO.COM>04/25/06 02:51PM
>>> <BR>Michael, <BR>Appendix-g states that use 40% glazing if glazing
% is <BR>above 40%, otherwise use whatever is smaller. From all <BR>the
discussions regarding this above-grade/below-grade <BR>issue, we now learn that,
as an update to the code, <BR>below grade walls(if the adjecent space is
<BR>conditioned) are now included in the WWR calculations. <BR>Appendix-g should
not change anything apart from the <BR>fact that glazing will need to be equally
distributed <BR>through-out the above-grade facade, am I correct?
<BR><BR><BR>Gerald <BR><BR>--- Michael Rosenberg
<MICHAEL.ROSENBERG@STATE.OR.US><BR>wrote: <BR><BR>> Since many of you readers
are using Appendix G of <BR>> Standard 90.1 for modeling LEED rated buildings
you <BR>> should be aware that Table G.3.1.5 states in the <BR>>
description of the baseline building for WWR; <BR>> <BR>> " Vertical
fenestration areas for new buildings and <BR>> additions shall equal that in
the proposed design or <BR>> 40% of gross above grade wall area, whichever is
<BR>> smaller, and shall be distributed uniformly in <BR>> horizontal
bands across the four orientations." <BR>> <BR>> As for the last part of
that requirement, <BR>> distributing fenestration uniformly in horizontal
<BR>> bands across the four orientations, that has been <BR>> removed in
Addendum A to the 2004 Standard, but will <BR>> not be updated in the
published version until 2007. <BR>> <BR>> Mike <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> Michael Rosenberg <BR>> Oregon Department of Energy <BR>> 625
Marion St. N.E. <BR>> Salem, OR 97301-3742 <BR>> Phone : (503) 373-7809
<BR>> Fax: (503) 373-7806 <BR>> <BR>> >>> "Larry Degelman"
<LDEGELMAN@COX.NET>04/24/06 <BR>> 05:07PM >>> <BR>> Possibly the
interpretation of what is gross wall <BR>> area depends on what <BR>>
version of 90.1 you are looking at. As for <BR>> 90.1-2004, the official
<BR>> interpretation on the ASHRAE web site leaves no <BR>> doubt that
"gross wall area" <BR>> include both above- and below-ground walls. See the
<BR>> following item verbatim <BR>> from the ASHRAE web site. <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> INTERPRETATION IC 90.1-2004-1 OF ANSI/ASHRAE/IESNA
<BR>> STANDARD 90.1-2004 <BR>> <BR>> Energy Standard for Buildings
Except Low-Rise <BR>> Residential Buildings <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Date Approved June 25, 2005 <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> Request from: Roger Chang (E-mail: <BR>> <U><A
href="mailto:roger.chang@arup.com">roger.chang@arup.com</A></U> ), Associate
Member, <BR>> 155 Avenue of the Americas, New York, NY 10013. <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Reference: This request for interpretation refers
<BR>> to the requirements <BR>> presented in ANSI/ASHRAE/IESNA Standard
90.1-2004, <BR>> Section 5.2.1 Compliance, <BR>> relating to gross wall
area. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Background: Standard 90.1-2004 does
not appear to be <BR>> clear as to what gross <BR>> wall area means.
International Energy Conservation <BR>> Code is clear that <BR>>
prescriptive requirements are based on window to <BR>> above-grade wall area.
This <BR>> impacts all sections of the code where the <BR>> window-to-
wall area ratio is <BR>> taken into consideration. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Interpretation: Gross wall area refers to <BR>>
above-grade wall only. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
Question: Is this interpretation correct? <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> Answer: No. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> Comments: <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Section 3.2 defines
"building envelope" to include <BR>> "the elements of a <BR>>
building*that enclose...spaces through which thermal <BR>> energy may be
<BR>> transferred to or from the exterior". <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> Section 3.2, in the definition of "wall" states <BR>> "this includes
above- and <BR>> below-grade walls, between floor spandrels, <BR>>
peripheral edges of floors, and <BR>> foundation walls". <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> Section 3.2 defines "gross wall area" as "the area <BR>> of
the wall measured on <BR>> the exterior face from the top of the floor to the
<BR>> bottom of the roof". <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Therefore, for
buildings with conditioned space <BR>> below-grade, the gross wall <BR>>
area extends from the top of the surface of the <BR>> floor of the lowest
<BR>> conditioned space to the bottom of the roof of the <BR>> highest
conditioned <BR>> space. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> (Note that the
use of a similar term in a document <BR>> from another organization <BR>>
is irrelevant to an interpretation of Standard <BR>> 90.1.) <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> Page 1 of 1 <BR>> �2005 ASHRAE. All Rights reserved.
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
===================================== <BR>> <BR>> Larry O. Degelman, P.E.
<BR>> <U><A href="mailto:ldegelman@cox.net">ldegelman@cox.net</A></U>
<BR>> <BR>> Prof. Emeritus of Architecture Ph./Fax: <BR>>
1-979-696-2506 <BR>> <BR>> Texas A&M University <BR>> <BR>>
===================================== <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
-----Original Message----- <BR>> From: <U><A
href="mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com">BLDG-SIM@gard.com</A></U> [<U> <A
href="mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com]">mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com]</A></U> <BR>> On
Behalf Of Jon McHugh <BR>> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 8:40 PM <BR>> To:
<U><A href="mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com">BLDG-SIM@gard.com</A></U> <BR>>
Subject: [BLDG-SIM] WWR definition <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Rene,
Larry and Gerald, <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I think that the the
underground wall area should be <BR>> included for each floor <BR>> that
has windows. These windows in partially below <BR>> ground stories are
<BR>> providing light and views that are no less important <BR>> than
similar functions <BR>> provided on upper floors. However, if I have a
<BR>> skyscraper with 4 stories of <BR>> underground garage of basement
areas, I don't think <BR>> these fully underground <BR>> wall areas should
be included. Rene, in evaluating <BR>> the energy and cost <BR>> impacts
of windows in buildings, it is important to <BR>> look at the potential
<BR>> for daylighting or the value of view, otherwise an <BR>> engineering
analysis <BR>> might conclude that we don't need any windows at <BR>> all.
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Perhaps this should be brought up with the
90.1 <BR>> envelope committee. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Sincerely,
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Jon McHugh, PE, LC <BR>> Technical
Director <BR>> Heschong Mahone Group Inc. <BR>> 11626 Fair Oaks Blvd #302
<BR>> Fair Oaks, CA 95628 (Sacramento) <BR>> (916)962-7001 ext 38 <BR>>
(916)962-0101 FAX <BR>> e-mail: <U><A
href="mailto:mchugh@h-m-g.com">mchugh@h-m-g.com</A></U> <BR>> URL: <U><A
href="http://www.h-m-g.com/">www.h-m-g.com</A></U> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> _____ <BR>> <BR>> From: <U><A
href="mailto:BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM">BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM</A></U> [<U> <A
href="mailto:BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM]">mailto:BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM]</A></U> <BR>> On
Behalf Of Renee J. <BR>> Azerbegi <BR>> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 11:11
AM <BR>> To: <U><A href="mailto:BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM">BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM</A></U>
<BR>> Subject: [BLDG-SIM] WWR definition <BR>> <BR>> It depends on the
code in use. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I submitted an official request
(CM proposal) to the <BR>> ASHRAE 90.1 Envelope <BR>> committee to change
the definition to only include <BR>> the above grade walls but <BR>> they
declined it so it is still the above and below <BR>> grade walls. The reason
<BR>> I sent the request is that architects tend to add <BR>> more glazing
to the above <BR>> grade walls because they can include the below grade
<BR>> walls in the <BR>> definition. I showed some modeling results of the
<BR>> difference between a two <BR>> story building with one above and
below grade wall <BR>> in a few difference <BR>> cities in the US and
there was a significant energy <BR>> impact. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> However, I believe the IECC includes only the above <BR>> grade
walls. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Ren�e <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Ren�e Azerbegi, CEM, LEED-AP <BR>> <BR>>
President/Sustainable Design Engineer <BR>> <BR>> ambient energy * solar
& sustainable design <BR>> solutions <BR>> <BR>> t 303.278.1532 | f
303.278.8533 | c 303.885.2695 <BR>> <BR>> <U><A
href="mailto:renee@ambient-e.com">renee@ambient-e.com</A></U> <BR>> <BR>>
ambient-e.com <BR>> <BR>> _____ <BR>> <BR>> From: <U><A
href="mailto:BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM">BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM</A></U> [<U> <A
href="mailto:BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM]">mailto:BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM]</A></U> <BR>> On
Behalf Of Larry <BR>> Degelman <BR>> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 10:26 AM
<BR>> To: <U><A href="mailto:BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM">BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM</A></U>
<BR>> Subject: [BLDG-SIM] <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Gerald et al,
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> The conventional definition of
window-wall-ratio is <BR>> the window area divided <BR>> by the "gross"
wall area, though the term <BR>> "window-wall-ratio" is no longer <BR>>
among the Definitions section of 90.1-2004. For <BR>> that matter, WWR is not
<BR>> defined in the Abbreviations section. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> Notwithstanding all that, the definition for "Gross <BR>> Wall Area"
is clearly <BR>> defined in the 90.1-2004 User's Manual. <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> On page 5-30, example 5-G addresses "Determining <BR>>
Gross Wall Area", stating <BR>> that this is very significant since the
window area <BR>> requirements are based <BR>> on Window-Wall-Ratio (WWR).
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Answer (as shown on the same page): "The
gross wall <BR>> area includes both <BR>> above-grade walls and
below-grade walls so that <BR>> gross wall area is simply <BR>> the
perimeter of the building * times the height*" <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> Larry D. <BR>> <BR>> =====================================
<BR>> <BR>> Larry O. Degelman, P.E. <BR>> <U><A
href="mailto:ldegelman@cox.net">ldegelman@cox.net</A></U> <BR>> <BR>>
Prof. Emeritus of Architecture Ph./Fax: <BR>> 1-979-696-2506 <BR>>
<BR>> Texas A&M University <BR>> <BR>>
===================================== <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
-----Original Message----- <BR>> <BR>> From: <U><A
href="mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com">BLDG-SIM@gard.com</A></U> <BR>> <BR>> To:
<U><A href="mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com">BLDG-SIM@gard.com</A></U> <BR>>
<BR>> Sent: Fri Apr 21 09:06:56 2006 <BR>> <BR>> Subject: [BLDG-SIM]
ASHRAE 90.1 window-wall ratio <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I recently
came across a paper from "Building Energy <BR>> <BR>> Codes Program"
called "Setting the Standard" and <BR>> lists <BR>> <BR>> out various
new code updates. It seems that <BR>> currently <BR>> <BR>> we are
allowed to count below-grade walls as part of <BR>> <BR>> the window-wall
ratio calculations. Does anyone <BR>> have <BR>> <BR>> an update on
this or point me to the right resource <BR>> to <BR>> <BR>> confirm
this information? <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Thanks. <BR>> <BR>>
Gerald <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
__________________________________________________ <BR>> <BR>> Do You
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