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<title>Bug in Window 5.2 </title>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Michael,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks for pointing this out. This is a
known bug in WINDOW5. However, you can still use WINDOW5 with a little modification.
The methodology for calculating inside heat transfer coefficient was changed in
WINDOW5 where radiative and convective part of film coefficients are calculated
separately but the DOE2 output report from WINDOW5 only reports convective
part. I saw this bug a long time back and asked <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Jeff
Hirsch</st1:PersonName> about the clarifications, I would like to share his
reply with the group:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Mahabir Bhandari<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Mahabir
Bhandari, Ph.D.<br>
Senior Energy Analyst<br>
Carli Inc.<br>
Tel: (413) 256 4647<br>
Fax: (413) 256 4823<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
STATEMENT OF CONFIDENTIALITY<br>
The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to
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or at <st1:PersonName w:st="on">home@fenestration.com</st1:PersonName>, and
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>The problem is an issue with Window 5 ouput that eQUEST
cannot fix;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Window 5's ouput for the hrout, hcout , and (hcrin
+ hcin) reported</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>at the bottom of the ouput is inconsistent with the reported
u-center.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>For example (here is a W5 ouput table for u-center)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>Overall and <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">Center</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Glass Ig</st1:PlaceName></st1:place>
U-values (W/m2-K)<br>
Outdoor
Temperature
-17.8 C 15.6 C 26.7
C 37.8 C<br>
Solar WdSpd hcout hrout hin<br>
(W/m2) (m/s) (W/m2-K)<br>
0 0.00
4.00 3.54 2.77 3.63 3.63 3.67 3.67 3.75
3.75 4.11 4.11 <br>
<strong><b><font face="Courier New"><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'>
0 6.71 <font color=red><span
style='color:red'>30.84 3.30 3.13</span></font> 5.88 <font
color=green><span style='color:green'>5.88</span></font> 5.51 5.51
5.52 5.52 6.22 6.22 </span></font></b></strong><b><span style='font-weight:
bold'><br>
</span></b> 783 0.00
4.00 3.64 2.59 3.63 3.63 3.67 3.67 3.75
3.75 4.11 4.11 <br>
783 6.71 30.84
3.33 3.08 5.88 5.88 5.51 5.51 5.52 5.52 6.22 6.22</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Where the same glass from W4 would produce</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>Overall and <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">Center</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Glass Window</st1:PlaceName></st1:place>
U-values (W/m2-C)<br>
Outdoor
Temperature
-17.8 C 15.6 C 26.7
C 37.8 C<br>
Solar WdSpd hcout hrout hin<br>
(W/m2) (m/s) (W/m2-C)<br>
0 0.00 12.25
3.43 8.23 5.10 5.30 4.83 4.98 4.82 4.97 5.33 5.57
<br>
<strong><b><font face="Courier New"><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'>
0 6.71 <font color=red><span
style='color:red'>25.47 3.33 8.30</span></font> 5.95 <font
color=green><span style='color:green'>6.31</span></font> 5.49 5.76
5.46 5.72 6.13 6.51 </span></font></b></strong><b><span style='font-weight:
bold'><br>
</span></b> 783 0.00
12.25 3.48 8.17 5.09 5.28 4.56 4.66 5.06
5.25 5.43 5.69 <br>
783 6.71 25.47
3.37 8.27 5.94 6.29 5.34 5.58 5.67 5.97 6.22 6.61</span></font><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>The three film coefficient should be input into the
FILMS-COND</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>keyword in the GLASS-TYPE-CODE command. For the above</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>window 4 library entry the values would be:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> FILMS-COND= (25.47, 3.33,
8.30)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>These values are in agreement with the window 4 report
u-center's in the table, but the</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>above window 5 value for the last film coeff is not correct
(it does not include both radiative</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>and convective components) as it does not allow the
reproduction of the reported u-center's</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>of the table.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>eQUEST, at this time, does not put a FILMS-COND keyword into
the glass-type-code command</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>due to this W5 probelm; we will decide what to do at some point
(we were waiting for the W5 group to</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>fix this problem/bug in their output)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>For now you could insert a films-cond keyword using the
first two values reported by</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>W5 and replacing the third with a value you calculate to get
the right u-center based</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>upon the glass the the other two values reported by W5 (or
just approx with 8.3,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>but then LS-D will not be correct)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Mike Tillou
[mailto:miket@etcgrp.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, June 17, 2005 9:02
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> BLDG-SIM@gard.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [BLDG-SIM] Bug in Window
5.2</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Hi
All,</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Anyone
using Window 5 (any version) to create custom glazing for DOE2 simulations
should be very careful. There is a bug in the output feature of Window 5
that incorrectly reports the window film coefficients used to calculate the
center of glass U-value. If you use this data in a DOE 2 simulation the
calculated center of glass U-value may be off by as much as 40%. BE
CAREFUL and check the output reports to verify glazing performance if you are
importing Window 5 performance data. Apparently Window 4 does not have
this problem, it worked fine when I tried it. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I
have been told that LBNL is aware of the problem but to date has not resolved
the issue. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I
have only heard one side of the story (and would be happy to hear the other)
but it seems like this is another chapter in the ongoing saga of DOE2 vs Energy
Plus. I am not saying this is the case, but it is disturbing to think
that software bugs in publicly funded software are not getting fixed for
political reasons.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Unfortunately
those of us trying to use these tools and can't because of issues like this
suffer most.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Sincerely,</span></font>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Disgruntled
Modeler.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
font-weight:bold'>Michael Tillou, PE<br>
etc Group, Inc.<br>
<st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on">PO Box 7</st1:Street>, <st1:City
w:st="on">Williamstown</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">MA</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">01267</st1:PostalCode></st1:address><br>
ph. (413) 458-9870 fx. (413) 458-9875<br>
</span></font><br>
</b><b><font face="Arial Narrow"><span style='font-family:"Arial Narrow";
font-weight:bold'> </span></font></b><font face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>==================<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>You received this e-mail because you are subscribed <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
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