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Also, if you are using either of the detailed glazing models, the way Steve
describes should better account for edge-of-glass effects. Dividing glazing
up into lots of tiny little "panes," as some architects want, has an extemely
delterious effect on the IGU overall U-factor, above and beyond the effect
of the frame itself. If using the SC inputs, it might be instructive to run
Window 5 on some similar configurations, to check the overall U-value with
DOE2's output. (Noting where interior, exterior etc films are/aren't accounted
for.)<br>
<br>
If you want a pretty rendering for the client, I recommend a separate model,
for presentation only. And then if trying to do daylighting calcs......;<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stvgates@pacbell.net">stvgates@pacbell.net</a> wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:MDAEMON-F200404121057.AA5741328pd80000089245@gard.com">
<title>[BLDG-SIM] Curtain wall frames and fenestration area</title>
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<div><font face="Arial" size="2">The solution below can work, but does
not take into account the effect of shading due to fins and overhangs.
For those windows, a better approach is to define one of the windows, together
with its fins/overhang, and then use the window MULTIPLIER to establish
the total number of windows on the wall wall. If the overhang shades a
significant portion of the wall, in addition to the window, then the overhang
can be defined as a separate shading surface.</font></div>
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----- Original Message ----- </div>
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From:</b><a title="miket@etcgrp.com" href="mailto:miket@etcgrp.com">Mike
Tillou</a>
</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none; "><b>
To:</b><a title="BLDG-SIM@gard.com" href="mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com">BLDG-SIM@gard.com</a>
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<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none; "><b>
Sent:</b> Monday, April 12, 2004 7:44 AM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none; "><b>
Subject:</b> [BLDG-SIM] Curtain wall frames and fenestration area</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div id="idOWAReplyText67348" dir="Ltr">
<div dir="Ltr"><font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2">Renee,</font></div>
<div dir="Ltr"> </div>
<div dir="Ltr"><font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2">The easiest
way to do this is to use a single window on each wall. Calculate the
percentage of window area that is actually frame and then adjust the frame-width
to account for the increase. You may end up with a window frame width
that is 12 inches or bigger (if the wall is large enough). With a little
ingenuity you can write some BDL code that will automatically calculate
the window width, frame width and x position of the window on the wall
so you don't get any cautions or warnings. . </font></div>
<div dir="Ltr"> </div>
<div dir="Ltr"> </div>
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<div id="idSignature46218" dir="Ltr">
<div><font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2">
<div><font face="Times New Roman" color="#0000ff"><strong>Michael Tillou,
PE</strong></font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman" color="#0000ff"><strong>etc Group,
Inc.</strong></font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#0000ff"><strong>PO Box
749, </strong></font><font color="#0000ff"><strong>North Adams, MA
01247</strong></font></font></div>
<div><font color="#0000ff"><strong><font face="Times New Roman">Ph. (413)
458-9870 Mbl. (413) 652-1087 </font><a href="http://www.etcgrp.com"><font face="Times New Roman">
www.etcgrp.com</font></a>
</strong></font></div>
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<div dir="Ltr"><br>
<hr tabindex="-1"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:postman@gard.com">postman@gard.com</a>
on behalf of Azerbegi, Renee<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Mon 4/12/2004 7:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:BLDG-SIM@gard.com">BLDG-SIM@gard.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [BLDG-SIM] Curtain wall frames and fenestration area<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size="2">Greetings,<br>
<br>
I am modeling a high-rise building in eQuest which has a significant amount
of fenestration as curtain wall. This curtain wall, like many curtain
walls, has metal frames around many small panes of glass that make up
the total curtain wall. My question is, how do you treat the frames and
the fenestration area? If I model each small pane of glass and add the
exact frame, this would probably overwhelm DOE2 due to the huge number
of small windows. If I model the glass as one big window, then is it
correct to just add the total width of the frame to each of these large
windows? Also, some of these curtain wall panes have fins to complicate
things, so if I do one big glass pane, then adding the fins would make huge
fins on either side of the glass. If you have dealt with modeling curtain
walls, as probably many of you have, please let me know how you have dealt
with these issues.<br>
<br>
Thank you,<br>
<br>
Renee<br>
<br>
Renee Azerbegi<br>
RMH Group<br>
303-239-0909x641<br>
<br>
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