<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 10 (filtered)">
<title>specific energie in office buildings</title>
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:SimSun;
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@SimSun";
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{margin-right:0in;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
pre
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
span.emailstyle19
{font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
span.emailstyle20
{font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
span.emailstyle21
{font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
span.emailstyle22
{font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
span.EmailStyle23
{font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
</head>
<body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I am forwarding my response to Larry Degelman
in case there are others in the BLDG-SIM Group that might be interested.
Varkie</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Varkie Thomas <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January 22, 2004
3:03 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'larry@taz.tamu.edu'<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [BLDG-SIM]
Day-Lighting and DOE2.1E</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Larry</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Thanks for your response. The percent
glass of all building envelopes designed by architects in this office is greater
than 50%. This has to do with exterior appearance, indoor working
conditions, building construction costs, exterior maintenance costs and client
satisfaction. So we always have to use the energy cost budget method to
show code compliance. We have been doing this with DOE21.E. First
analyze the building with Std90 criteria (50% glass with Table B properties,
lighting densities, EERs, COPs, etc.) and then with the proposed building
design using more efficient glass, lights, systems, equipment and renewable
energy sources that will produce less than or equal to energy use and cost
(using thermal storage, etc.) results. The attachment to our energy
report includes the DOE2 output BDL for the base and the proposed designs as
verification. I assume we can use this procedure to show energy savings
from day-lighting controls under Building Envelope Trade-Off Options of Std90,
Section 5.4 and Appendix-C. Can any other computer program, other than
DOE2.1E, be used to show ECB compliance?</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Based on the responses I received regarding
day-lighting and LEED certification, I could cheat and locate the light sensor
in a perimeter space in the DOE2 program run, so that it produces the highest
lighting energy savings results. The single sensor location could
represent a space with a perimeter depth of 50 ft or more and any floor
area. I could also use a computer program that produces higher lighting
energy savings than some other computer program. Title 24 code requires
compliance using specific computer programs and there are instructions on using
the programs so that everyone is on the same playing field. I think the
location of the sensors and the geometry of the space (without going into the
X,Y,Z coordinates of all the interior walls since there aren’t any in
base speculative office building design) should be considered in energy codes.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Can 5 cfm per person of outdoor air be used
for all types of commercial (non-industrial) spaces if the filtration system
can produce the same indoor air quality as, say, 20 cfm per person for an
office space? Does this qualify under “Energy Cost Budget”
and “Energy & Atmosphere – Optimize Energy Performance”?</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>I apologize for sounding so ignorant?
Since we have to use computer programs to show energy code compliance, the
developers of the programs should adjust the program input and output to make
it easier to use the programs to show code compliance. We were once asked
to show Std90 compliance for an architecturally complex performing arts center
using ComCheck-Plus. We had to create an equivalent rectangular box with
5 zones to do this. It could have been done with DOE2.1E using the
procedure described above.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Should I send this message to the BLDG-SIM
group? I don’t know who are out there and whether I am making a
fool of myself</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Varkie Thomas</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Larry Degelman
[mailto:larry@taz.tamu.edu] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January 22, 2004
10:43 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [BLDG-SIM] Day-Lighting
and DOE2.1E</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Just a side note of interest
(with no judgment inferred):</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>ASHRAE/IESNA Standard
90.1-1999 no longer allows lighting control credits. Compliance is based
on connected lighting power alone. With the 1989 Standard, credits could
be taken for automatic controls/sensors and daylighting controls.
(Inference about the dependability of lighting sensors/controls??? – I
don’t know.)</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Furthermore, VLT (Visible
Light Transmittance) is not considered in the Prescriptive Envelope Option, but
it is considered in the Envelope Trade-off Option, a la Chapter 5 (Sect.
5.3.2.4 and 5.4).</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards,</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>=====================================
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Larry O. Degelman,
P.E.
<a href="mailto:larry@taz.tamu.edu">larry@taz.tamu.edu</a> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Prof. Emeritus of
Architecture Ph./Fax: 1-979-696-2506</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Texas A&M University</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>=====================================</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> postman@gard.com
[mailto:postman@gard.com] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Varkie
Thomas<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, January 21, 2004
3:37 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> BLDG-SIM@gard.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [BLDG-SIM] Day-Lighting
and DOE2.1E</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Can
day-lighting controls be considered for LEED certification under “Energy
& Atmosphere – Optimize Energy Performance”? If so where
should the light sensor be located in the space? Is there any energy code
that allows credit for day-lighting controls? The DOE2 program allows two light
sensors per space. Supposing the two sensors are located 5 ft and 10 ft
from the window. Is the average daylight at these two points used in
determining the reduction in artificial lighting?</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>The DOE2
program expects zones to have 6 surfaces defined with X,Y,Z coordinates and
reflectance values for day-lighting analysis. Ignoring this produces
warning messages but the results show a reduction in artificial lighting
energy. For day-lighting analysis we only enter into DOE2 the X,Y
coordinates of the window origin relative to the wall and also the wall and
window dimensions. Can we assume that the energy savings results from the
DOE2 program are on the safe side (the actual energy saved is more) when we use
the program without all the surfaces and coordinates?</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Are there any
rules for day-lighting analysis for establishing energy savings and for
comparing the results from different studies?</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Varkie Thomas</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Skidmore,
Owings & Merrill LLP</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Tel: (312)
360-4467 (direct)</span></font></p>
<pre style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span></font></pre><pre style='margin-left:
1.0in'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span></font></pre><pre
style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>==================</span></font></pre><pre
style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>You received this e-mail because you are subscribed </span></font></pre><pre
style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>to the BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM mailing list. To unsubscribe </span></font></pre><pre
style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>from this mailing list send a blank message to </span></font></pre><pre
style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@GARD.COM</span></font></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span></font></pre><pre style='margin-left:
.5in'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span></font></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>==================</span></font></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>You received this e-mail because you are subscribed </span></font></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>to the BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM mailing list. To unsubscribe </span></font></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>from this mailing list send a blank message to </span></font></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@GARD.COM</span></font></pre></div>
<PRE>
===========================
You received this e-mail because you are subscribed
to the BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM mailing list. To unsubscribe
from this mailing list send a blank message to
BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@GARD.COM
</PRE></body>
</html>