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<DIV><SPAN class=515480400-23012004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Varkie
- </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=515480400-23012004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=515480400-23012004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>You
raise an old issue (old, in the sense that when I was on the ECB subcommittee
leading up to the adoption of 90.1-1999 we spent a lot of time talking
about this) - how to ensure that th eintent of the standard is not defeated by
the detailed modeling decisions of the analyst.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=515480400-23012004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=515480400-23012004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>California has a long history of providing detailed technical
specifications for modeling software (or a front end thereto) to ensure that
simulations are done correctly for compliance. Indeed, one can only use
CEC-certified compliance software for that purpose. The user inputs and the user
interface are specified, modeling assumptions are built into the software, and
outputs are standardized.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=515480400-23012004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=515480400-23012004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>For
90.1, the committee did not have the resources to develop a comparably detailed
specification. The effort of the committee was to clearly state the
intention of the standard, and to describe in concise terms how the proposed and
budget designs were to be modeled consistent with the rest of the
standard. The expectation was that private vendors would take it from
there and generate compliance software that met the intent of the standard, as
well as any locally adopted variations in the states and jurisdictions that
would adopt 90.1. It was left to the adopting authorities to certify the
software for compliance purposes. There was even some talk of ASHRAE getting
into this business, but no leadership emerged to capitalize on this
opportunity.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=515480400-23012004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=515480400-23012004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>So
that was the intent for how the problems you raise would be addressed. I
haven't followed the story very closely since then, but it is my impression that
compliance software has not emerged, and that there is therefore a lot of
opportunity for analysts to game the ECB method. I hope I'm wrong about
this.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=515480400-23012004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=515480400-23012004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Doug.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
class=515480400-23012004><!-- Converted from text/plain format --><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><BR>
<P><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Douglas Mahone, Principal<BR>Heschong
Mahone Group, Inc.<BR>11626 Fair Oaks Blvd. #302<BR>Fair Oaks, CA
95628<BR><BR>(916) 962-7001 x30<BR>fax (916)
962-0101<BR>dmahone@h-m-g.com<BR><BR>web site:
www.h-m-g.com<BR><BR></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=515480400-23012004></SPAN></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Varkie Thomas
[mailto:Varkie.Thomas@som.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 22, 2004
2:41 PM<BR><B>To:</B> BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM<BR><B>Subject:</B> [BLDG-SIM]
Day-Lighting and DOE2.1E<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I am forwarding my
response to Larry Degelman in case there are others in the BLDG-SIM Group that
might be interested. Varkie</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Varkie
Thomas <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday,
January 22, 2004 3:03 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
'larry@taz.tamu.edu'<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>
RE: [BLDG-SIM] Day-Lighting and DOE2.1E</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy">Larry</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy">Thanks for your response. The
percent glass of all building envelopes designed by architects in this office
is greater than 50%. This has to do with exterior appearance, indoor
working conditions, building construction costs, exterior maintenance costs
and client satisfaction. So we always have to use the energy cost budget
method to show code compliance. We have been doing this with
DOE21.E. First analyze the building with Std90 criteria (50% glass with
Table B properties, lighting densities, EERs, COPs, etc.) and then with the
proposed building design using more efficient glass, lights, systems,
equipment and renewable energy sources that will produce less than or equal to
energy use and cost (using thermal storage, etc.) results. The
attachment to our energy report includes the DOE2 output BDL for the base and
the proposed designs as verification. I assume we can use this procedure
to show energy savings from day-lighting controls under Building Envelope
Trade-Off Options of Std90, Section 5.4 and Appendix-C. Can any other
computer program, other than DOE2.1E, be used to show ECB
compliance?</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy">Based on the responses I received
regarding day-lighting and LEED certification, I could cheat and locate the
light sensor in a perimeter space in the DOE2 program run, so that it produces
the highest lighting energy savings results. The single sensor location
could represent a space with a perimeter depth of 50 ft or more and any floor
area. I could also use a computer program that produces higher lighting
energy savings than some other computer program. Title 24 code requires
compliance using specific computer programs and there are instructions on
using the programs so that everyone is on the same playing field. I
think the location of the sensors and the geometry of the space (without going
into the X,Y,Z coordinates of all the interior walls since there aren’t any in
base speculative office building design) should be considered in energy
codes.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy">Can 5 cfm per person of outdoor air be
used for all types of commercial (non-industrial) spaces if the filtration
system can produce the same indoor air quality as, say, 20 cfm per person for
an office space? Does this qualify under “Energy Cost Budget” and
“Energy & Atmosphere – Optimize Energy Performance”?</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy">I apologize for sounding so
ignorant? Since we have to use computer programs to show energy code
compliance, the developers of the programs should adjust the program input and
output to make it easier to use the programs to show code compliance. We
were once asked to show Std90 compliance for an architecturally complex
performing arts center using ComCheck-Plus. We had to create an
equivalent rectangular box with 5 zones to do this. It could have been
done with DOE2.1E using the procedure described above.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy">Should I send this message to the
BLDG-SIM group? I don’t know who are out there and whether I am making a
fool of myself</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy">Varkie Thomas</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Larry
Degelman [mailto:larry@taz.tamu.edu] <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, January 22, 2004 10:43
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>
[BLDG-SIM] Day-Lighting and DOE2.1E</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Just a
side note of interest (with no judgment inferred):</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">ASHRAE/IESNA Standard
90.1-1999 no longer allows lighting control credits. Compliance is based
on connected lighting power alone. With the 1989 Standard, credits could
be taken for automatic controls/sensors and daylighting controls.
(Inference about the dependability of lighting sensors/controls??? – I don’t
know.)</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Furthermore, VLT
(Visible Light Transmittance) is not considered in the Prescriptive Envelope
Option, but it is considered in the Envelope Trade-off Option, a la Chapter 5
(Sect. 5.3.2.4 and 5.4).</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Regards,</SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy">=====================================
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Larry O.
Degelman,
P.E.
<A href="mailto:larry@taz.tamu.edu">larry@taz.tamu.edu</A> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Prof.
Emeritus of Architecture Ph./Fax:
1-979-696-2506</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Texas
A&M University</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy">=====================================</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
postman@gard.com [mailto:postman@gard.com] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Varkie Thomas<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, January 21, 2004 3:37
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
BLDG-SIM@gard.com<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>
[BLDG-SIM] Day-Lighting and DOE2.1E</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=navy size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy">Can day-lighting
controls be considered for LEED certification under “Energy & Atmosphere –
Optimize Energy Performance”? If so where should the light sensor be
located in the space? Is there any energy code that allows credit for
day-lighting controls? The DOE2 program allows two light sensors per
space. Supposing the two sensors are located 5 ft and 10 ft from the
window. Is the average daylight at these two points used in determining
the reduction in artificial lighting?</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=navy size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy">The DOE2 program
expects zones to have 6 surfaces defined with X,Y,Z coordinates and
reflectance values for day-lighting analysis. Ignoring this produces
warning messages but the results show a reduction in artificial lighting
energy. For day-lighting analysis we only enter into DOE2 the X,Y
coordinates of the window origin relative to the wall and also the wall and
window dimensions. Can we assume that the energy savings results from
the DOE2 program are on the safe side (the actual energy saved is more) when
we use the program without all the surfaces and coordinates?</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=navy size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy">Are there any
rules for day-lighting analysis for establishing energy savings and for
comparing the results from different studies?</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=navy size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy">Varkie
Thomas</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=navy size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy">Skidmore, Owings
& Merrill LLP</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=navy size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy">Tel: (312)
360-4467 (direct)</SPAN></FONT></P><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">==================</SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">You received this e-mail because you are subscribed </SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">to the BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM mailing list. To unsubscribe </SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">from this mailing list send a blank message to </SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@GARD.COM</SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">==================</SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">You received this e-mail because you are subscribed </SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">to the BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM mailing list. To unsubscribe </SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">from this mailing list send a blank message to </SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@GARD.COM</SPAN></FONT></PRE></DIV><PRE>
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