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<TITLE>RE: [BLDG-SIM] getting the whole design team ..., 3D Modeling + Energy Analysis</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Mark,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>I would be very interested in participating in such a seminar/symposium. I've been teaching building energy simulation for over 20 years, mostly to architectural students. Up until recently it was a very painful experience (BDL is not a very friendly environment for instruction), however with the introduction of eQUEST and other friendly interfaces building simulation has turned into a very exciting class. I have shared some of these experiences in a paper I wrote for the 2000 ASES conference (I will try finding it in electronic form and send it off to you). Also IBPSA at it's Chicago meeting in January approved a contract to develop a series of building simulation tutorials for educators (I will find out who got the contract and when the project will be completed). </FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Regards</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Harvey Bryan. Ph.D.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>School of Architecture</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Arizona State University</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>P.O. Box 871605Tempe, AZ. 85287-1605</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Tel: 480-965-6094</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Fax: 480-965-0968</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>email:harvey.bryan@asu.edu</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Mark E. Case [<A HREF="mailto:mcase@etcgrp.com">mailto:mcase@etcgrp.com</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 8:23 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: BLDG-SIM@GARD.COM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: [BLDG-SIM] getting the whole design team ..., 3D Modeling +</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Energy Analysis</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>I've found this discussion of 3D Modeling + Energy Analysis, or getting</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the whole design team into the performance assessment game, most</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>fascinating. I would like to propose a seminar, or series of seminars</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>and symposiums (documented case studies) on the topic, or various topics</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>presented in the preceding chain.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>I know this isn't necessarily original but to see it discussed on this</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>particular forum adds, I think, a new dimension. I'm pleasantly</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>surprised at the number of responses from architects who, by their</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>presence on BLDG-SIM@ Gard.com obviously pay attention to modeling and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>building simulation. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>They could start within a group such as ASHRAE, but would need to branch</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>out to AIA and other associations. Ideally, we could produce something</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>to present at local venues, to the local design, owner, operator</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>community. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>There is time to probably get a seminar at the ASHRAE Winter meeting in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Anaheim, Jan 04. I can think of at least two ASHRAE Technical Committees</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>that would be interested. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Anyone interested? Other venues?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> </FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: postman@gard.com [<A HREF="mailto:postman@gard.com">mailto:postman@gard.com</A>] On Behalf Of J.K. Nayak</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 9:23 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: BLDG-SIM@gard.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Cc: BLDG-SIM@gard.com; Sabu Francis</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: [BLDG-SIM] 3D Modeling + Energy Analysis</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>I may point out that we have started some work at IIT Bombay in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>association with architects for combining building design and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>simulation. The architect does not have to know the details of a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>simulation. We have integrated the design and simulation process. The</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>first part of the project has been completed. It is called TADSIM:Tools</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>for Architectural Design and SIMluation. A part of the result was</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>presented in SOLAR 2002 (Reno, Nevada, USA) in June 2002.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Thanks.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>J.K. Nayak</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>----------------------------------------------------------</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Dr. J.K. Nayak </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Professor, Energy Systems Engineering</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Dept. of Mech. Engg., IIT-Bombay,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Powai, Mumbai 400 076,INDIA.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Tel: +91-22-25722545 ext. 7881 (O)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> +91-22-25767881 (O)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> +91-22-25704166 (R) </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Fax: +91-22-25723480</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> +91-22-25726875</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Email: jknayak@me.iitb.ac.in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>-----------------------------------------------------------</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Monjur M Mourshed wrote:</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>> Mike</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> I agree with your point that energy conservation should begin with</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Architects but I have reservation about how to implement it, given the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> current circumstances. Energy simulation is a complex task oriented</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> process. It needs a lot of parameters to be specified to kick off and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> that might not be available when a designer/ Architect starts the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> design. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Another point to note is the lack of integrated UI (User Interface) -</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>be</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> it graphical or textual. Most of the researches in Energy Simulation /</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Conservation are aimed at developing stand-alone utility or piece of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> software to do certain job. In my opinion, the emphasis should be</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>placed</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> on the integration with the design process and final outcome or</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>product.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> For example, I want to kick off Energy Simulation module from within</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> CAD software I am working with, without specifying further parameters</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> and I want to check for energy consumption after every change I made</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> the layout or component. I don't want to open a different window or</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> software and spend a week to define and run the simulation. You might</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>as</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> well say IFC or STEP is there to help. To be honest these</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>specifications</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> seem just prototypes to me, I have reservations about them being used</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> real life situations - not in next 3/5 years at least.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> It is wisely said; know your target audience before you even think to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> code your software. Knowingly or unknowingly, Most of the software/</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Interfaces are targeted towards HVAC Engineers, not architects.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>There's</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> a fundamental difference in the think/ work process of an architect</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>with</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Engineers. I don't think architects are too comfortable with what's</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> available out there, commercially or research wise. This is the only</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> reason for not using them in profession. Nobody has problems with</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> learning something new, if it increases the quality of the product or</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> increases efficiency of the process.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Regards,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Monjur Mourshed</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> IRUSE, Civil Engineering, UCC. Ireland</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> <A HREF="http://www.ecaad.com/monjur" TARGET="_blank">http://www.ecaad.com/monjur</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> <A HREF="http://www.ucc.ie/iruse/monjur" TARGET="_blank">http://www.ucc.ie/iruse/monjur</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> From: postman@gard.com [<A HREF="mailto:postman@gard.com">mailto:postman@gard.com</A>] On Behalf Of Mike</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Roberts</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Sent: 12 February 2003 16:06</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> To: BLDG-SIM@gard.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> X-Scanned: By Symantec Carrier Scan Server</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Subject: [BLDG-SIM] 3D Modeling + Energy Analysis</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Warren,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> I'm sure you have seen the discussion of eQUEST over the last few</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>days.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> I consider it and it's DOE-2.2 calculation engine the best available</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>for</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> serious production energy simulation. My business is energy simulation</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> for other engineers and architects, and we do probably 90 percent of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>our</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> work with eQUEST/DOE-2.2. It can even do rudimentary modeling, though</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> probably not what you would want to present to a client. eQUEST's</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> wizard makes preliminary analysis very quick and easy. You can then</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> take that model as far as you want with the Detailed Edit Mode.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> On the other hand, any good simulation program will have a significant</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> learning curve. I believe eQUEST to have the best user interface</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> available, but the program is not trivial to learn and use properly.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>I</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> have worked with Marlin Addison on presenting two day eQUEST training</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> seminars to engineers and architects. Normally, after a seminar,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>about</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> 10 percent of the participants will contact me with questions,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> indicating to me that they are actually using the program. While I</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>have</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> felt for a long time that energy conservation should start with the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> architect, few of the seminar participants are architects and I cannot</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> remember a single architect with a follow up question.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> I would highly recommend that whatever program makes your short list,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> you attend a training seminar to determine if it is practical for you</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> actually use the program. I would be happy to talk or email further</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> about this subject.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Mike Roberts</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> 816-942-8121</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> From: postman@gard.com [<A HREF="mailto:postman@gard.com">mailto:postman@gard.com</A>]On Behalf Of Warren A.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Campbell</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 7:55 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> To: BLDG-SIM@gard.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> X-Scanned: By Symantec Carrier Scan Server</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Subject: [BLDG-SIM] 3D Modeling + Energy Analysis</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Hello All:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> I have a request. I am an architect in North Carolina, and it is my</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>job</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> to choose the next generation of software that my office will use in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> production of construction documents. On the one hand, I am</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>considering</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> a 3D modeling program, such as Revit, in order to take advantage of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>both</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> the parametric and rendering capabilities. However, I also have a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>strong</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> interest in promoting high performance design. Therefore, I was hoping</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> there exists a program that can fluidly incorporate energy analysis</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>into</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> the modeling software. Maybe there is even something on the horizon.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Any suggestions?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Warren A. Campbell, RA</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Millennium 3 Design Group</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> 1313 North Tryon Street</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Charlotte, NC 28206</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> (704) 333-1965.Ext 22 phone</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> (704) 376-7122 fax</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> wcampbell@m3dg.com</FONT>
</P>
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