[Bldg-sim] building indoor temperature and humidity prediction

Tue Mar 6 11:13:26 PST 2018

WUFI is where I would head next also… but some cautionary advice to supplement:

Tom is correct to suggest WUFI (or in generic terms of the top of my head “transient envelope dewpoint simulation”) is indeed a software/skillset that requires time investment to pick up and utilize with accuracy.  Before pursuing this (not-inexpensive) software and analysis skillset, I would generally advise strangers to first grow comfortable with executing the procedure and fully understanding the limitations of “normal” (steady-state) dewpoint analysis (re: Chapter 27 of 2009 ASHRAE Fundamentals).

Expending the time/effort for something like a proper WUFI analysis should follow being able to confidently assert a steady-state analysis will not do. I used to provide envelope dewpoint analysis as an independent service to architects and MEP consultants, and while I could have used WUFI for every analysis it would have been overkill for most situations.

All that said, Ibrahim if the only thing changing between the present and future state is the envelope construction, exterior weather conditions, and/or interior sensible/latent load profiles…  then I think WUFI could be an appropriate software to pursue calibrating a model to your existing-state measurements (developing a latent and sensible load profile which responds similarly to the existing envelope and measurement period weather), and then using the calibrated WUFI model to predict interior conditions under different envelope, exterior weather conditions, or interior load profiles.

Best of luck!

~Nick

[cid:image001.png at 01D3B54A.F46D7DA0]
Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP
  Senior Energy Engineer
  Regional Energy Engineering Manager
  Energy and Sustainability Services
  Schneider Electric

D  913.564.6361
M  785.410.3317
F  913.564.6380
E  nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com<mailto:nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com>

15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive
Suite 204
Lenexa, KS 66219
United States

[cid:image002.png at 01D3B54A.F46D7DA0]

From: Davidson, Tom [mailto:TDavidson at DLBASSOCIATES.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 7:08 AM
To: 'Ibrahim NEYA' <ibrahim.neyapro at gmail.com>
Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org; Nicholas Caton <Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com>
Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] building indoor temperature and humidity prediction

Ibrahim,

You might want to look at WUFI or WUFI Passive. Links are below:

https://wufi.de/en/

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/wufi-driving-me-crazy

http://www.phius.org/software-resources/wufi-passive-and-other-modeling-tools/wufi-passive-3-0

Based on the second link, it looks like training is an essential component of using this software properly.

Tom

From: Ibrahim NEYA [mailto:ibrahim.neyapro at gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 2:49 AM
To: Davidson, Tom
Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>; Nicholas Caton
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] building indoor temperature and humidity prediction

Hi everybody,
Thank you for your answers.
To be more specific, I would like to predict the indoor temperature and humidity when I
know the ootdoor climate and the building enveloppe materials. For that, I want to know
if there is a tool/software/algorithm able to do this work.
I have already measured on-site indoor temperature and humidity.
Thank you for your help
Regards

2018-03-05 21:47 GMT+00:00 Davidson, Tom <TDavidson at dlbassociates.com<mailto:TDavidson at dlbassociates.com>>:
Ibrahim,

Every building is obviously quite different, but I was involved with logging indoor and outdoor humidity levels in a new near-passive residence recently, and am posting the results as an image (assuming that an image can be posted here). There was an extremely high correlation between average indoor and outdoor humidity levels in the month of Dec 2017 (look at slopes of the two values, which are both absolute humidity levels). There is significantly less variability in the indoor levels than the outdoor levels. I guess this speaks to the ability of indoor components to absorb moisture and provide a dampening effect on the outdoor humidity variations.

[cid:image003.png at 01D3B54A.F46D7DA0]

Thomas A. Davidson, PE

DLB Associates  |  265<https://maps.google.com/?q=265+Industrial+Way+West+%7C+Eatontown,+NJ+07724&entry=gmail&source=g> Industrial<https://maps.google.com/?q=265+Industrial+Way+West+%7C+Eatontown,+NJ+07724&entry=gmail&source=g> Way<https://maps.google.com/?q=265+Industrial+Way+West+%7C+Eatontown,+NJ+07724&entry=gmail&source=g> West<https://maps.google.com/?q=265+Industrial+Way+West+%7C+Eatontown,+NJ+07724&entry=gmail&source=g>  |<https://maps.google.com/?q=265+Industrial+Way+West+%7C+Eatontown,+NJ+07724&entry=gmail&source=g>  Eatontown,<https://maps.google.com/?q=265+Industrial+Way+West+%7C+Eatontown,+NJ+07724&entry=gmail&source=g> NJ<https://maps.google.com/?q=265+Industrial+Way+West+%7C+Eatontown,+NJ+07724&entry=gmail&source=g> 07724<https://maps.google.com/?q=265+Industrial+Way+West+%7C+Eatontown,+NJ+07724&entry=gmail&source=g>
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From: Nicholas Caton [mailto:Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com<mailto:Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com>]
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2018 1:25 PM
To: Ibrahim NEYA
Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] building indoor temperature and humidity prediction

Hello Ibrahim,

If it’s an existing/built building, you’ll want to acquire a quantity of these to measure directly:  http://www.onsetcomp.com/products/data-loggers/ux100-003.  Very useful for objectively quantifying occupant comfort issues and operation/malfunctions of building or space-level humidity controls, which can then support energy savings/costs associated with correcting those kinds of issues.

If it’s a new building or else only on paper at the moment, any number of energy simulation software can report temperature and RH of airstreams at a system or zonal resolution.  eQuest/doe2 is among them, however I’m inclined to suggest/request you to be more specific about your purpose and end-goals, supplemented with any existing building simulation experience/skillsets.  eQuest comes with a definite learning curve before it’s outputs can be leveraged with confidence, and there might be software more purpose-built options appropriate to your task(s) at hand that I or others could suggest.

~Nick

[cid:image001.png at 01D3B54A.F46D7DA0]
Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP
  Senior Energy Engineer
  Regional Energy Engineering Manager
  Energy and Sustainability Services
  Schneider Electric

D  913.564.6361<tel:(913)%20564-6361>
M  785.410.3317<tel:(785)%20410-3317>
F  913.564.6380<tel:(913)%20564-6380>
E  nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com<mailto:nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com>

15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive<https://maps.google.com/?q=15200+Santa+Fe+Trail+Drive+%0D%0ASuite+204+%0D%0ALenexa,+KS+66219+%0D%0AUnited+States&entry=gmail&source=g>
Suite 204
Lenexa, KS 66219
United States

[cid:image002.png at 01D3B54A.F46D7DA0]

From: Bldg-sim [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Ibrahim NEYA via Bldg-sim
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2018 11:47 AM
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: [Bldg-sim] building indoor temperature and humidity prediction

Hi everybody,
Please, could someone help me to find a software that can predict the indoor temperature and humidity of a building?
Thank you very much for your help
Regards

--

NEYA Ibrahim
Ingénieur en Génie Electrique et Énergétique

Tél : 00226 61 85 77 07

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--

NEYA Ibrahim
Ingénieur en Génie Electrique et Énergétique

Tél : 00226 61 85 77 07

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