[Bldg-sim] Wind driven rain data

Thu Jul 19 05:26:03 PDT 2018

Hello,

FYI, I can think of at least one location where you'd find probably good
quality weather data in a *big urban center and not at an airport: Central
Park, New York City, USA*, though it's in a quite large park but there are
tall buildings all around it, see map
<https://www.google.com/maps/place/40%C2%B046'44.4%22N+73%C2%B058'08.4%22W/@40.7787947,-73.9765413,15.5z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d40.779!4d-73.969>
.

Note that in NOAA there's a weird thing going on where you have 4 stations
with different operating dates, one did 1943 to 2010, another 2010 to 2012
or so, and another started after that (I know I said there are four: one
did 17 days in august 2010 but overlapped another running one). Here are
the USAF-WBAN codes for the two most interesting:

725053-94728 #CENTRAL PARK (2012 to today)
725060-94728 #NEW YORK CENTRAL PARK (2010 to 2012)

This data is free and can be accessed at NOAA's ISD (see here
<https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/isd/data-access>)

I looked at France's stations in the NOAA database too, since I have a
better clue of where things actually are, and it seems that there are a
bunch that aren't at an airport, but there are all in seaside towns, so
that is probably not what you're looking for...

Here are some stations you'll perhaps want to look at, I'm including the
three airports around central park too if you want to compare the data.
Don't mind the fact that the 'END" date is last year, I just haven't
refreshed this file since September 2017

USAF WBAN STATION NAME CTRY STATE ICAO LAT LON ELEV(M) BEGIN END KEEP
70020 99999 BOULOGNE FR 50.733 1.6 74 19730101 20170902 YES
72000 99999 PENMARCH FR 47.8 -4.367 19 19360102 20170902 YES
73150 99999 LA ROCHELLE FR 46.15 -1.15 10 19290801 20170902 YES
76410 99999 SETE FR 43.4 3.7 81 19360615 20170902 YES
76950 99999 CAP FERRAT FR 43.683 7.333 144 19730101 20100412 YES
725030 14732 LA GUARDIA AIRPORT US NY KLGA 40.779 -73.88 3.4 19730101
20170904 YES
725033 94728 NYC CENTRAL PARK US NY KNYC 40.779 -73.969 47.5 19431201
20100731 YES
725033 99999 NEW YORK CITY  CENTRAL PARK US NY 40.767 -73.983 27 20100801
20100817 YES
725053 94728 CENTRAL PARK US NY KNYC 40.779 -73.969 42.7 20120801 20170904
YES
725060 94728 NEW YORK CENTRAL PARK US NY KNYC 40.779 -73.969 47.5 20100801
20120801 YES
744860 94789 JOHN F KENNEDY INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT US NY KJFK 40.639 -73.762
3.4 19730101 20170904 YES

Best,
Julien

--
Julien Marrec, EBCP, BPI MFBA
Owner at EffiBEM <http://www.effibem.com>
T: +33 6 95 14 42 13

LinkedIn (en <https://www.linkedin.com/in/julienmarrec>) *| *(fr
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2018-07-19 3:55 GMT+02:00 Joe Huang via Bldg-sim <
bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>:

> Roel,
>
> I'm not an expert in this field of liquid precipitation, but here are my
> thoughts in response to your comments:
>
> 1) I'm not aware of drastic differences in rainfall between the airport
> and more urban areas of a city.  However, there are noticeable differences
> in wind speeds for which, in the absence of measured data, are accounted
> for in building energy modeling by TERRAIN-PARAMETERs dependent on the
> general site description, e.g., 1.00 for flat terrain such as an airport,
> 0.85 for rural,  0.67 for urban or forest, and 0.47 for urban centers with
> tall building, and the height difference between the measured data and the
> site.  if you're having difficulty in finding either measured wind speed or
> driving rain data (good luck!), I would suggest you just use the airport
> data and adjust that with a Terrain Parameter.
>
> 2) If you insist on getting rain and wind speed data for a suburban
> location, I'm sure those can be found among the 8,000+ weather stations for
> which I have hourly weather data, but the locations would be anywhere in
> the world.  Do you care where is the location?
>
> 3) The Met Eirerann paper describes a driving rain index, but does not
> provide the equation.  In thinking about it again (note that I've only
> thought about this after reading your original query), I think a plausible
> approach would be:
>
>    a. find the approximate downward velocity of falling rain (a quick web
> search for "How fast do raindrops fall" gave the answer of 10 m/sec)
>
>    b. divide that by the (adjusted) wind speed to get the fraction that
> would fall on a vertical surface, i.e., driving rain.
>
>    c. multiply the "driving rain fraction" by the reported rain fall to
> get the amount of driving rain.
>
>    c. use the wind direction to apportion the driving rain by the wall
> orientation.
>
> It's still not clear to me what is the primary motivation for your
> investigation.  Is it to determine the amount of driving rain at a
> particular location or weather file?  to validate the method to calculate
> driving rain?  Or to just get a handle on how much driving rain is there ?
>
> Joe
>
> Joe Huang
> White Box Technologies, Inc.
> 346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A
> Moraga CA 94556yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.comhttp://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com for simulation-ready weather data
> (o) (925)388-0265
> (c) (510)928-2683
> "building energy simulations at your fingertips"
>
> On 7/18/2018 5:43 AM, Roel Tersteeg wrote:
>
> Dear Joe and Luis,
>
>
>
> Thank you for your replies to my question and apologies for my very late
> reply to you both. Unfortunately the data from official, synoptic weather
> stations is airfield data and thus not applicable to my situation as there
> is no difference in microclimate (no changes in wind or rainfall due to
> surrounding building). The same goes for the Met Eireann information (if of
> interest, the Climatological notes 13 and 3 about wind driven rain can also
> be found and downloaded here as well: https://www.met.ie/education/
> publications/climatological-notes)
>
>
>
> I am looking specific for wind driven rain data, or indeed combined wind
> and precipitation data that can be converted to wind driven rain, for
> different (sub)urban settings. The suggestion for looking at ‘personal
> weather stations’ is very interesting, although this has the issue of
> uncertainty about the quality of the measurements.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> Roel
>
>
>
> *From:* Luis Miguel Blanes Restoy <lmblanes at gmail.com>
> <lmblanes at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 06 July 2018 14:34
> *To:* Joe Huang <yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com>
> <yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com>
> *Cc:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Bldg-sim] Wind driven rain data
>
>
>
> Joe
>
> Try this link
>
> https://es.scribd.com/document/346851908/MET-Driving-Rain-Index-IRELAND#
> close_user_settings_menu
>
> Regards
>
> Luis
>
>
>
> On Thu 5 Jul 2018, 04:28 Joe Huang, <yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com>
> wrote:
>
> Luis,
>
> Thanks for the tip.  I went to the link, which by the way is for the Irish
> Meteorological Service,  and read that it said, "The amount of rain
> received by a wall correlates fairly well with the product of rainfall and
> the component of the wind speed normal to the wall. This led Lacy and
> Shellard to propose the product of the mean annual rainfall and the mean
> annual wind speed as a driving rain index which is proportional to the
> total rainfall driven in one year on to a vertical surface always facing
> the wind",  which is functionally quite close to what I was envisioning,
> i.e., WDR = LP * f(wspd, wdir),  where LP is Liquid Precipitation or
> Rainfall. However, when I clicked on the link to the actual paper cited,
> the Meteireann web site responded that  "404: Page not found".  Therefore,
> I still don't know the function that converts LP or rainfall to WDR.
>
> Joe
>
> Joe Huang
>
> White Box Technologies, Inc.
>
> 346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A
>
> Moraga CA 94556
>
> yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com
>
> http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com for simulation-ready weather data
>
> (o) (925)388-0265
>
> (c) (510)928-2683
>
> "building energy simulations at your fingertips"
>
> On 7/4/2018 2:30 PM, Luis Miguel Blanes Restoy wrote:
>
> Hi Roel and Joe
>
>
>
> Did you look at available data from Met Eireann? There is a paper
> regarding WDR index calculation method that may be of your interest. See
> below link.
>
>
>
> https://www.met.ie/climate/what-we-measure/rainfall#
> <https://www.met.ie/climate/what-we-measure/rainfall>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Luis
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed 4 Jul 2018, 22:12 Joe Huang via Bldg-sim, <
> bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org> wrote:
>
> What is your definition for Wind-driven Rain?  Practically all weather
> station reports, including official stations available in NOAA's ISD as
> well as unofficial "Personal Weather Stations" hosted on
> WeatherUnderground, contain information on liquid precipitation (LP), wind
> speed, and wind direction.  Can the WDR be calculated from these standard
> parameters, maybe as the LP * f(wspd, wdir) ?
>
> Joe
>
> On 7/4/2018 3:52 AM, Roel Tersteeg via Bldg-sim wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> For the verification of a model to estimate wind driven rain (WDR) I would
> like to use WDR data from different microclimates (rural, (sub)urban). I
> have access to several data sets of free field or airfield WDR measurements
> from different locations and the results from a measurement campaign in
> Vancouver. To better evaluate the model I would like to use measured data
> from one or more locations with different microclimates, not being free
> field or airfield sites.
>
>
>
> My question is if someone knows if measurements are available of wind
> driven rain in one or more microclimates?
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> Roel Tersteeg MSc
>
>
>
> PhD-student
>
> Building Energy Research Group
>
> School of Architecture, Building and Civil Engineering
>
> Loughborough University
>
> T: +44 77 56 10 90 54
>
> E: R.M.Tersteeg at lboro.ac.uk
>
>
>
>
>
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