[Bldg-sim] [EnergyPlus_Support] RE: [Equest-users] White Box Technologies brings simulation weather data to the satellite age
Linda Lawrie
linda at fortlawrie.com
Tue Jan 9 04:32:32 PST 2018
Actually, EnergyPlus (and the epw format) uses
coded flags in the 9 digit "Present Weather
Codes" to determine and set Rain/Snow. Now that
some stations include precipitation (albeit
liquid) EnergyPlus sets the rain flag when there
is adequate precipitation currently.
I believe the updated TMY3 format went away from
the 9 digit present weather codes, so EnergyPlus
would rely on the "preciitation" field in the epw file.
It would not be impossible to bring those back to
the CWEC data; however, probably not as individual flags.
Linda
At 04:44 PM 1/8/2018, Joe Huang via Bldg-sim wrote:
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> boundary="------------E16429D68ABA1BA04C74DF5C"
>Content-Language: en-US
>
>The rain and snow flags are still available in
>the raw weather station data, but haven't been
>included in the processed weather files since
>the 1990's because everyone in this hemisphere
>at least have adopted the TMY2/TMY3 formats, in
>content if not the literal file format,
>developed by NREL, which does not include these
>two flags. I was also under the impression that
>none of the simulation programs, such as DOE-2,
>do not use these two flags anyway.  If these
>flags are of use, it would make sense to include
>them, which would not require a change in the
>DOE-2 *.BINM format, but would require a change to the EnergyPlus *.epw format.
>
>Joe
>
>Joe Huang
>White Box Technologies, Inc.
>346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A
>Moraga CA 94556
><mailto:yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com>yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com
>http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com for simulation-ready weather data
>(o) (925)388-0265
>(c) (510)928-2683
>"building energy simulations at your fingertips"
>On 1/8/2018 12:15 PM, 'Jones, Christopher'
><mailto:christopher.r.jones at wsp.com>christopher.r.jones at wsp.com
>[EnergyPlus_Support] wrote:
>>Â
>>
>>I have a question – what happened to the rain
>>and snow flags that were in the old CWEC file
>>but are missing in the latest versions. Many
>>snow melting systems have a snow/rain sensor in
>>the slab used to trigger the system on.
>>
>>Â
>>
>>Â
>>
>>Christopher R. Jones, P.Eng.
>>
>>Technical Specialist
>>
>>Sustainability & Energy
>>
>>Â
>>
>>[]
>>
>>
>>T +1 416-644-0252
>>
>>Â
>>
>>2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300
>>
>>Toronto, ON M4P 1E4 Canada
>>
>><wsp.htm>wsp.com
>>
>>Â
>>
>>Â
>>
>>Please consider the environment before printing...
>>
>>Â
>>
>>Â
>>
>>From: Equest-users
>>[<mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org]
>>On Behalf Of Joe Huang via Equest-users
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 10:15 PM
>>To: Nicholas Caton
>><mailto:Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com><Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com>;
>>BLDG-SIM
>><mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org><bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>;
>>EnergyPlus_Support
>><mailto:EnergyPlus_Support at yahoogroups.com><EnergyPlus_Support at yahoogroups.com>;
>><mailto:equest-users at onebuilding.org>equest-users at onebuilding.org
>>Cc: Jim Dirkes
>><mailto:jim at buildingperformanceteam.com><jim at buildingperformanceteam.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Equest-users] White Box
>>Technologies brings simulation weather data to the satellite age
>>
>>Â
>>
>>Nick,
>>
>>This is an interesting topic that has evolved
>>in an unexpected way. Now that NREL has
>>mastered the technology of satellite-derived
>>solar radiation, they have regarded weather
>>station data as an impediment, since there's no
>>way to get such measured data to match the
>>5-kilometer grid of the satellite-derived
>>solar. Therefore, they have abandoned the
>>weather station data (which was was used in all
>>the TMYs to date) and gone instead to
>>Reanalysis Data from NOAA's MERRA, which is
>>running a climate forecasting model in
>>retrospective mode. I don't have time now to
>>discuss reanalysis, except to say that from
>>what I've seen the results are decidedly
>>"iffy". Almost two years ago, I managed to
>>get a Work Statement through ASHRAEÂ for
>>someone to take a good look at reanalysis data.
>>
>>So, what does this mean for your question?Â
>>Â NREL's National Solar Radiation Data Base
>>(NSRDB) can now get you the hourly time series
>>or a TMY for more than a million grid points
>>over the US, all with satellite-derived solar
>>radiation but MERRA results for the other
>>climate parameters. I've told NREL several
>>years ago that for the building simulation
>>industry it would be much better to merge
>>the satellite-derived solar with actual
>>station data that give good accurate coverage
>>of urban areas where buildings are located.
>>NREL's response was that they'd be happy to do
>>this, but someone has to pay them for the work.
>>
>>In response to your hypothesis below, I think
>>you're being too disparaging of the previous
>>modeling efforts while raising too high your
>>expectations of satellite solar. It's not
>>that the previous models failed to account for
>>local climate conditions, but that they lacked
>>good data to drive them. For example, all
>>models included terms for cloud cover and
>>clearness, or for the more detailed physical
>>models arcane parameters like aerosol optical
>>depth, preciptable moisture, etc., but how
>>available are the input data and how reliable
>>are they? The advantages of satellite-derived
>>solar are that they provide a comprehensive and
>>objective view of the cloud conditions, which
>>combined with satellite measurements of the
>>atmospheric conditions and improved modeling,
>>results in accuracies that previous modeling
>>efforts can not attain. As far as discerning
>>localized effects of smog and dust in urban
>>areas, that would still depend on whether
>>there's sufficient monitoring at that spatial
>>and time scale to detect the differences.Â
>>Â What I mean is that it's one thing to
>>observe that in general urban locations have
>>more smog and particulates than rural
>>locations, but it's something else to quantify
>>the resultant differences in solar radiation over time and distance.
>>
>>I'd like to take the opportunity here to step
>>back and comment on the status of weather data
>>for the building energy community, My
>>interactions with NREL has brought the
>>realization that we have been piggy-backing on
>>the efforts of others outside our community for
>>our weather data. I don't intend to pick on
>>the NREL Solar Program, several of whom I
>>consider friends and colleagues, but their
>>target client is the solar power
>>industry. Since solar power arrays can be
>>installed anywhere, preferably in rural
>>uninhabited locations, it makes sense to go to
>>satellite-derived solar. It's also clear that
>>to serve that industry, NREL would focus its
>>efforts on getting the best solar values, while
>>all the other climatic parameters, like
>>temperature, humidity, wind speed, etc., are
>>secondary, which may be why getting them from
>>MERRA is a satisfactory choice. The focus on
>>solar is also evident in the weighting used by
>>NREL to develop the TMYs, with 50% weight
>>placed on the 2 solar and 50% on the remaining 8 non-solar parameters.
>>
>>For the building energy community, or
>>priorities are somewhat different. Since 99% of
>>buildings are located in urban locations, we
>>should focus much more on climate in urban
>>areas. Luckily, that's also where the great
>>majority of existing weather are located, which
>>is why I'm resistant to throwing out measured
>>weather data and replacing them with synthetic
>>data, no matter how much they've been "seeded"
>>with real data. As for the weighting of climate
>>parameters in selecting the typical
>>months, why not use building energy
>>simulations and weight them by the distribution of heating and cooling loads?
>>
>>Joe
>>
>>Joe Huang
>>White Box Technologies, Inc.
>>346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A
>>Moraga CA 94556
>><mailto:yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com>yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com
>>http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com for simulation-ready weather data
>>(o) (925)388-0265
>>(c) (510)928-2683
>>"building energy simulations at your fingertips"
>>On 1/2/2018 9:30 AM, Nicholas Caton wrote:
>>
>>Hi Joe,
>>
>>Â
>>
>> From your perspective, are NREL or any other
>> government/professional bodies making
>> moves/indications to update/refresh the
>> current TMY3 sets to utilize satellite-derived
>> solar radiation? Seems like a no-brainer for
>> our industry, but is there a
>> counter-argument? It seems likely, but has
>> there been rigorous comparisons of
>> satellite-derived solar radiation against
>> measured values and/or our “present-dayâ€
>> solar models used to derive solar radiation
>> information for building energy simulation?
>>
>>Â
>>
>>Also, I’m trying to understand and correctly
>>characterize the impact of this development in
>>simple terms my brain can follow. Is it fair to say:
>>
>>Â
>>
>>The solar models used in developing weather
>>files for building energy simulations to-date
>>in our industry (including all/most
>>industry-standard TMY weather sets), because
>>they have been using solar radiation derived
>>from (evolving) solar models, have not
>>accounted for the likes of local climate cloud
>>cover / smog / dust? Seattle (~47°N) has
>>perhaps been seeing as much sunlight through the winter as Paris (~48°N)?
>>
>>Â
>>
>>Does satellite-derived solar radiation address
>>some or all of these local climate issues
>>(cloud cover, smog, dust) affecting direct/indirect solar radiation?
>>
>>Â
>>
>>Thanks sincerely for all your teaching Joe,
>>
>>Â
>>
>>~Nick
>>
>>Â
>>
>>[]
>>
>>
>>Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP
>>
>>Â Senior Energy Engineer
>>Â Regional Energy Engineering Manager
>>
>>Â Energy and Sustainability Services
>>Â Schneider Electric
>>
>>DÂ Â 913.564.6361
>>MÂ Â 785.410.3317
>>FÂ Â 913.564.6380
>>EÂ Â
>><mailto:nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com>nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com
>>
>>15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive
>>Suite 204
>>Lenexa, KS 66219
>>United States
>>
>>[]
>>
>>
>>Â
>>
>>Â
>>
>>From: Equest-users
>>[<mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org]
>>On Behalf Of Joe Huang via Equest-users
>>Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:13 PM
>>To: BLDG-SIM
>><mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org><bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>;
>>EnergyPlus_Support
>><mailto:EnergyPlus_Support at yahoogroups.com><EnergyPlus_Support at yahoogroups.com>;
>><mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
>>Subject: [Equest-users] White Box Technologies
>>brings simulation weather data to the satellite age
>>
>>Â
>>
>>It is with joy and some trepidation to report
>>that White Box Technologies (WBT) is updating
>>all its historical weather files with
>>satellite-derived solar radiation. Joy because
>>this overcomes what has been the most
>>significant question mark with weather files;
>>trepidation because of the amount of work
>>needed to carry out and maintain this effort.
>>To show that this is more than marketing hype,
>>I need to give a rather long explanation about this development.
>>
>>The bane of weather data over the past three
>>decades has been the solar radiation (global
>>horizontal and direct normal) which are not
>>measured parameters, but derived using various
>>solar and sky models. All the familiar "typical
>>year" sets, i.e., TMY, WYEC, IWEC, etc., let
>>alone the historical weather files, have
>>modeled solar radiation. Although a lot of
>>work has gone into such models (see M.
>>Iqbal,"An Introduction to Solar Radiation",
>>Academic Press, 1983), there remain an almost
>>intractible problem of the lack of good
>>measured solar to tune any of these models. For
>>example, in the ASHRAE IWEC2 weather files, my
>>team was able to find one or two years'
>>measured data for less than 50 locations,
>>from which were derived 28 sets of regression
>>coefficients then used for all 3,012 IWEC2 locations.
>>
>>For the past decade and a half, researchers
>>around the world have been working to derive
>>solar radiation from weather satellite imagery,
>>driven largely by the needs of the solar power
>>industry for the siting of solar power plants
>>and getting "bankable" solar estimates for
>>their arrays. Our little building energy
>>simulation sector can of course benefit by
>>hanging on the coattails of the solar power
>>industry, but the downside has been to be
>>totally priced out, since the commercial cost
>>for one year's solar data for one location
>>(grid cell) typically runs around $1,000.
>>
>>A welcome development over the last five years
>>is that various government offices or
>>affiliated consortia are now beginning to also
>>providing access to satellite-derived solar
>>radiation at minimal or more acceptable costs
>>under various conditions. Over the past three
>>years, WBT has obtained access to such data and
>>permission for its use in WBT weather files.
>>WBT is now either replacing the solar radiation
>>on its historical weather files, or using
>>satellite-derived radiation to develop custom
>>solar coefficients for each location to extend
>>the satellite-derived solar to time periods
>>outside the available time window. With the
>>exception of polar locations above or below
>>60/66 degrees, island nations in the Pacific
>>and Indian Ocean, and a few unfortunate "blind
>>spots", the entire land mass is being covered
>>with at least 10 years up to 18 years of hourly solar records.
>>
>>Starting in 2018, WBT historical weather files
>>in the following areas will all have
>>satellite-derived solar radiation for the
>>following time periods: Europe, Africa, South
>>America east of 66 West, i.e., Brazil and
>>Uruguay (2004 to date), Australia (1999 to
>>date), and East Asia (2007 to date, access
>>pending). WBT historical weather files in the
>>following areas will have satellite-derived
>>solar radiation for the indicated time periods
>>- North America and Central/South American down
>>to 20 South (1998-2015), South Asia
>>(2000-2014), with modeled solar radiation from
>>2016 on that has been individually tuned to the past satellite-derived solar.
>>
>>Another benefit to the satellite-derived solar
>>is to increases the number of available weather
>>stations, which in many places has been limited
>>by the lack of cloud cover data needed to model
>>the solar radiation. For reasons that are not
>>immediately identifiable, several
>>English-speaking Commonwealth countries has
>>seen a marked drop in the number of available
>>stations due to the decreases in the reporting
>>of cloud cover (see plot, ZAF = South Africa).
>>For example, the number of stations in the UK
>>has dropped by almost 2/3s between 2001 and
>>2017 (174 to 64), but with satellite-derived
>>solar, it will go back up to over 180, while in
>>Australia and South Africa the comparable
>>numbers are from 175 to well over 500, and from 37 to over 100, respectively.
>>[]
>>
>>If interested, customers who have purchased a
>>historical weather files from WBT over the past
>>five years can get an updated weather file at
>>no cost. Lastly, although it will take at least
>>a month to update all 10,000 2017 files, it's
>>very quick to do for any specific location or
>>even 50 or so locations. Therefore, if you have
>>an urgent request please e-mail me and I will
>>put that at the beginning of the queue for that day.
>>
>>--
>>Joe Huang
>>White Box Technologies, Inc.
>>346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A
>>Moraga CA 94556
>><mailto:yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com>yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com
>>http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com for simulation-ready weather data
>>(o) (925)388-0265
>>(c) (510)928-2683
>>"building energy simulations at your fingertips"
>>Â
>>
>>
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