[Bldg-sim] Modeling zones that are conditioned but not controlled

Peter Simmonds psimmonds11 at gmail.com
Fri Feb 23 11:40:43 PST 2018


One should also point out that a corridor is a transient space and is
therefore not critical.

Peter Simmonds, Ph.D., FASHRAE, FIBPSA, FFTI

Mobile USA: +1-310-383-9911

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www.petersimmonds.com

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 8:29 AM, Bishop, Bill via Bldg-sim <
bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org> wrote:

> Christopher,
>
> I agree with Jim.
>
> I typically model all *conditioned spaces* including *semiheated *spaces
> with heating and cooling thermostat schedules, except for heating-only
> zones that meet the criteria for Systems 9/10 in Appendix G, for which I
> leave the cooling thermostat schedule undefined. I may enter relaxed design
> conditions for zones that aren’t intended to have tight temperature control
> (using DESIGN-COOL-T and DESIGN-HEAT-T in DOE-2/eQUEST), and use
> correspondingly relaxed thermostat schedules for those zones. If there are
> unmet hours in the proposed design that I can’t address by relaxing the
> thermostat schedules even further, than I might leave the heating and/or
> cooling thermostat schedules undefined to represent floating with no
> thermostat control (which results in no reported unmet loads to have to
> explain). I keep all design conditions and thermostat schedules identical
> in the baseline as required by Appendix G.
>
> Regards,
>
> ~Bill
>
>
>
> *William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, CEM, LEED AP **|** Pathfinder Engineers
> & Architects LLP*
>
> *Senior Energy Engineer*
>
>
>
>
>
> 134 South Fitzhugh Street                 Rochester, NY 14608
>
> *T: (585) 698-1956*                        F: (585) 325-6005
>
> bbishop at pathfinder-ea.com <wbishop at pathfinder-ea.com>
> www.pathfinder-ea.com
>
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> Fee and Dividend - simple, effective, and market-based.
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>
> *From:* Bldg-sim [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Jones, Christopher via Bldg-sim
> *Sent:* Friday, February 23, 2018 11:21 AM
> *To:* Jim Dirkes <jim at buildingperformanceteam.com>
>
> *Cc:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Bldg-sim] Modeling zones that are conditioned but not
> controlled
>
>
>
> Thanks Jim,
>
> Your suggested approaches are in line with how I have been handing the
> issue.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Christopher R. Jones*, P.Eng.
>
> Technical Specialist
>
> Sustainability & Energy
>
>
>
> T +1 416-644-0252
>
>
>
> 2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300
>
> Toronto, ON M4P 1E4 Canada
>
> wsp.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *Please consider the environment before printing...*
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Jim Dirkes [mailto:jim at buildingperformanceteam.com
> <jim at buildingperformanceteam.com>]
> *Sent:* Friday, February 23, 2018 11:18 AM
> *To:* Jones, Christopher <Christopher.r.Jones at wsp.com>
> *Cc:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Bldg-sim] Modeling zones that are conditioned but not
> controlled
>
>
>
> My opinion:
>
> If there is no thermostat, the design essentially says that a wide
> temperature variation is acceptable. You might consider arguing that those
> zones *cannot *have unmet load hours because the design does not attempt
> to control temperature.
>
>
>
> For your own peace of mind (if your software allows it), you might also
> report hourly temperatures in the zone to confirm that temps don't go crazy
> unexpectedly during occupied hours.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 10:47 AM, Jones, Christopher via Bldg-sim <
> bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org> wrote:
>
> I am wondering what others do for building zones that are conditioned but
> have no direct HVAC control. For example, a typical school will have a DOAS
> with perimeter radiation in exterior zones. There will be temperature and
> CO2 DCV in these occupied zones. The corridor will have transfer air and
> may have a couple of small supply diffusers from the DOAS but there is no
> thermostat to control the temperature in that corridor.
>
>
>
> If there is no thermostat, there is no setpoint so how does one determine
> if the corridor has unmet loads? How would one model the corridor zone in
> the baseline case for Appendix G?
>
>
>
>
>
> *Christopher R. Jones*, P.Eng.
>
> Technical Specialist
>
> Sustainability & Energy
>
>
>
> T +1 416-644-0252 <(416)%20644-0252>
>
>
>
> 2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300
>
> Toronto, ON M4P 1E4 Canada
>
> wsp.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *Please consider the environment before printing...*
>
>
>
>
>
>
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