[Bldg-sim] Indemnity Clause?

Mon Jul 17 06:37:13 PDT 2017

Seventhwave (formerly Energy Center of Wisconsin) has a Minnesota state grant to study and pilot a program for “Performance-based Procurement and Design for New Construction” which seems to be aiming towards a revised contracting and project process with a guarantee by all parties involved (designer, contractor, commissioner).  To learn more you could start with https://www.seventhwave.org/sites/default/files/shenry2016_0.pdf.

Paul Riemer, PE, LEED AP BD+C
DUNHAM

From: Bldg-sim [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Jim Dirkes via Bldg-sim
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 4:04 PM
To: Dan Nall
Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Indemnity Clause?

Just saw Nick's comment...
Performance contracting has incentives for both understanding (what's going on) and optimizing performance - both very good. We need to bottle that and convince a lot of people that it's a great supplement for business profitability.

On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 4:58 PM, Jim Dirkes <jim at buildingperformanceteam.com<mailto:jim at buildingperformanceteam.com>> wrote:
Andy,
Your points are well made. Perhaps they can be summarized by saying that the modeler needs to be diligent in creating a well-conceived, well-checked model? I agree completely!

Dan's point is what I was thinking of, compliments of my commissioning activity. Systems are rarely built to specifications and very rarely operate per specifications a couple years later. "Real life" has a bunch of wild cards that can influence performance in a big way.

I'd love to see a lot more attention paid to actual operations and how to optimize building performance while serving the needs of the owner and occupants. My standard comment is that 95% of buildings have a 20-30% energy improvement opportunity. I'd love to see that opportunity recognized and the improvement realized.

On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 3:41 PM, Dan Nall <dannall at mindspring.com<mailto:dannall at mindspring.com>> wrote:
A case occurred quite early in my career, 1982, maybe 1983.  A developer in Atlanta had an idea for leasing spec office space based upon an all-inclusive gross rent (rental plus operating costs including energy).  He built a couple of mid-sized spec buildings in Orlando using equipment and glass selections based on my modeling, and designed to generate "cost-effective" energy savings, with the intent of reaping the difference between the assumed energy cost in the gross rent and the actual energy cost.  I was not the engineer of record but the EOR factored my modeling into equipment sizing.  The developer expected to get the predicted return on his investment.  When that building was about half leased, I got a call from him saying that, not only were his utility bills already at 90% of predicted, but that the chiller plant was already operating at 90% of full load,  He told me to expect to hear from his lawyers.  Fortunately, I had asked him what values to use for peak and average receptacle loads, and he had referred me to his facility guy in Orlando.  He had written back (before emails), that I should use 0.75 W/ft2 peak and 0.5 W/ft2 average receptacle loads.  I went to visit the building to find out what was going on and discovered that the principal tenants were IBM and a brokerage firm.  Surveyed nameplate power densities in their spaces were about 3.0 W/ft2.  This time was at the beginning of the office automation revolution and they were both into it big time, with 21" CRT's all over the place. One of them had a digital telephone switch with a nameplate power of 10 kW.  It was in a small room and was cooled, by a length of 10" flex duct hanging through the lay-in ceiling.  It was attached to a spin-in fitting directly in the VAV trunk duct, without benefit of any terminal.  Based on my survey, the letter from the facility guy, and my disclaimer, both I and the EOR were off the hook.  The developer, however, never returned for energy modeling services. So, disclaimers and documentation of assumptions are a very good idea.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Dirkes
Sent: Jul 14, 2017 2:40 PM
To: Dan Nall
Cc: Peter Simmonds , "bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>"
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Indemnity Clause?
On the one hand, all of my proposals include a disclaimer intended to make the client aware of energy model limitations. The clients are not normally experts in modeling and it's not reasonable to expect they'd know what a model can and can't do. I want to increase their understanding in advance of the work.

On the other hand, I'm wondering if anyone has been crazy enough to litigate a situation where actual results and modeled results differ. Just for starters, once you construct and begin operating a building, almost every assumption made by the modeler is immediately, and often greatly, different. How can anyone expect a close match?

On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Dan Nall via Bldg-sim <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>> wrote:
This is a very important issue, especially since some jurisdictions, including New York City, are looking at regulation of energy use, rather than regulation of calculated energy use.  Liability arises if the energy modeling results indicate compliance with the code, and later operating experience reveals a non-compliant building.  ACEC New York City Energy Code Committee is contemplating responses to this dilemma.

Have been using disclaimers as one of the first pages of an energy modeling report since the early 1980's.  .
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Simmonds via Bldg-sim
Sent: Jul 14, 2017 12:15 PM
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: [Bldg-sim] Indemnity Clause?
Just a simple question: how many  simulation experts and modelers provide and indemnity clause to their clients? Are we all guaranteeing the results are true and can be obtained? What happens if predicted results don’t materialize? Who’s to blame/responsible?
Comments and suggestions please.

Peter Simmonds, Ph.D., FASHRAE, FIBPSA, FFTI

Mobile USA: +1-310-383-9911<tel:(310)%20383-9911>

Mobile HKG: +852-9227-1640<tel:+852%209227%201640>

Mobile UK: +44 7470461689<tel:+44%207470%20461689>

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--
James V Dirkes II, CEO / President
The Building Performance Team Inc.
1631 Acacia Dr, GR, MI 49504

(alphabet soup of efforts for excellence: PE, BEMP, BCxP, LEED AP)

Direct / Mobile: 616.450.8653<tel:(616)%20450-8653>
jim at buildingperformanceteam.com<mailto:jim at buildingperformanceteam.com>

Website <http://buildingperformanceteam.com> l  LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jim-dirkes/7/444/413>

Coffee conversation:

They love truth when it enlightens them, they hate  truth when it accuses them… They love truth when it reveals itself, and hate it when it reveals them.

.

--
James V Dirkes II, CEO / President
The Building Performance Team Inc.
1631 Acacia Dr, GR, MI 49504

(alphabet soup of efforts for excellence: PE, BEMP, BCxP, LEED AP)

Direct / Mobile: 616.450.8653<tel:(616)%20450-8653>
jim at buildingperformanceteam.com<mailto:jim at buildingperformanceteam.com>

Website <http://buildingperformanceteam.com> l  LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jim-dirkes/7/444/413>

Coffee conversation:

They love truth when it enlightens them, they hate  truth when it accuses them… They love truth when it reveals itself, and hate it when it reveals them.

.

--
James V Dirkes II, CEO / President
The Building Performance Team Inc.
1631 Acacia Dr, GR, MI 49504

(alphabet soup of efforts for excellence: PE, BEMP, BCxP, LEED AP)

Direct / Mobile: 616.450.8653
jim at buildingperformanceteam.com<mailto:jim at buildingperformanceteam.com>

Website <http://buildingperformanceteam.com> l  LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jim-dirkes/7/444/413>

Coffee conversation:

They love truth when it enlightens them, they hate  truth when it accuses them… They love truth when it reveals itself, and hate it when it reveals them.

.
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