[Bldg-sim] Indemnity Clause?

Fri Jul 14 13:58:34 PDT 2017

Andy,
Your points are well made. Perhaps they can be summarized by saying that
the modeler needs to be diligent in creating a well-conceived, well-checked
model? I agree completely!

Dan's point is what I was thinking of, compliments of my commissioning
activity. Systems are rarely built to specifications and *very *rarely
operate per specifications a couple years later. "Real life" has a bunch of
wild cards that can influence performance in a big way.

I'd love to see a lot more attention paid to actual operations and how to
optimize building performance while serving the needs of the owner and
occupants. My standard comment is that 95% of buildings have a 20-30%
energy improvement opportunity. I'd love to see that opportunity recognized
and the improvement realized.

On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 3:41 PM, Dan Nall <dannall at mindspring.com> wrote:

> A case occurred quite early in my career, 1982, maybe 1983.  A developer
> in Atlanta had an idea for leasing spec office space based upon an
> all-inclusive gross rent (rental plus operating costs including energy).
> He built a couple of mid-sized spec buildings in Orlando using equipment
> and glass selections based on my modeling, and designed to generate
> "cost-effective" energy savings, with the intent of reaping the difference
> between the assumed energy cost in the gross rent and the actual energy
> cost.  I was not the engineer of record but the EOR factored my modeling
> into equipment sizing.  The developer expected to get the predicted return
> on his investment.  When that building was about half leased, I got a call
> from him saying that, not only were his utility bills already at 90% of
> predicted, but that the chiller plant was already operating at 90% of full
> load,  He told me to expect to hear from his lawyers.  Fortunately, I had
> asked him what values to use for peak and average receptacle loads, and he
> had referred me to his facility guy in Orlando.  He had written back
> (before emails), that I should use 0.75 W/ft2 peak and 0.5 W/ft2 average
> receptacle loads.  I went to visit the building to find out what was going
> on and discovered that the principal tenants were IBM and a brokerage
> firm.  Surveyed nameplate power densities in their spaces were about 3.0
> W/ft2.  This time was at the beginning of the office automation revolution
> and they were both into it big time, with 21" CRT's all over the place. One
> of them had a digital telephone switch with a nameplate power of 10 kW.  It
> was in a small room and was cooled, by a length of 10" flex duct hanging
> through the lay-in ceiling.  It was attached to a spin-in fitting directly
> in the VAV trunk duct, without benefit of any terminal.  Based on my
> survey, the letter from the facility guy, and my disclaimer, both I and the
> EOR were off the hook.  The developer, however, never returned for energy
> modeling services. So, disclaimers and documentation of assumptions are a
> very good idea.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Dirkes
> Sent: Jul 14, 2017 2:40 PM
> To: Dan Nall
> Cc: Peter Simmonds , "bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org"
> Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] Indemnity Clause?
>
> On the one hand, all of my proposals include a disclaimer intended to make
> the client aware of energy model limitations. The clients are not normally
> experts in modeling and it's not reasonable to expect they'd know what a
> model can and can't do. I want to increase their understanding in advance
> of the work.
>
> On the other hand, I'm wondering if anyone has been crazy enough to
> litigate a situation where actual results and modeled results differ. Just
> for starters, once you construct and begin operating a building, almost
> every assumption made by the modeler is immediately, and often greatly,
> different. How can anyone expect a close match?
>
> On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Dan Nall via Bldg-sim <
> bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org> wrote:
>
>> This is a very important issue, especially since some jurisdictions,
>> including New York City, are looking at regulation of energy use, rather
>> than regulation of calculated energy use.  Liability arises if the energy
>> modeling results indicate compliance with the code, and later operating
>> experience reveals a non-compliant building.  ACEC New York City Energy
>> Code Committee is contemplating responses to this dilemma.
>>
>> Have been using disclaimers as one of the first pages of an energy
>> modeling report since the early 1980's.  .
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Peter Simmonds via Bldg-sim
>> Sent: Jul 14, 2017 12:15 PM
>> To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
>> Subject: [Bldg-sim] Indemnity Clause?
>>
>> Just a simple question: how many  simulation experts and modelers provide
>> and indemnity clause to their clients? Are we all guaranteeing the results
>> are true and can be obtained? What happens if predicted results don’t
>> materialize? Who’s to blame/responsible?
>>
>> Comments and suggestions please.
>>
>> Peter Simmonds, Ph.D., FASHRAE, FIBPSA, FFTI
>>
>> Mobile USA: +1-310-383-9911 <(310)%20383-9911>
>>
>> Mobile HKG: +852-9227-1640 <+852%209227%201640>
>>
>> Mobile UK: +44 7470461689 <+44%207470%20461689>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
>
> James V Dirkes II, CEO / President
> The Building Performance Team Inc.
> 1631 Acacia Dr, GR, MI 49504
>
> (alphabet soup of efforts for excellence: PE, BEMP, BCxP, LEED AP)
>
> Direct / Mobile: 616.450.8653 <(616)%20450-8653>
> jim at buildingperformanceteam.com
>
> Website <http://buildingperformanceteam.com>l  LinkedIn
> <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jim-dirkes/7/444/413>
>
> *Coffee conversation:*They love truth when it enlightens them, they hate  truth when it accuses them… They love truth when it reveals itself, and hate it when it reveals them*.*
>
>
>
> .
>
>

-- 

James V Dirkes II, CEO / President
The Building Performance Team Inc.
1631 Acacia Dr, GR, MI 49504

(alphabet soup of efforts for excellence: PE, BEMP, BCxP, LEED AP)

Direct / Mobile: 616.450.8653
jim at buildingperformanceteam.com

Website <http://buildingperformanceteam.com>l  LinkedIn
<https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jim-dirkes/7/444/413>

*Coffee conversation:*They love truth when it enlightens them, they
hate  truth when it accuses them… They love truth when it reveals
itself, and hate it when it reveals them*.*

.
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