[Bldg-sim] ASHRAE systems exception B interpretation

Tue Oct 13 10:26:06 PDT 2015

Thanks, will keep you posted with what they say. I do think having individual storage rooms in one system is a bit excessive.

Veronica Ochoa

Consultant

hurleypalmerflatt

building sustainability

d:

+44 20 7535 3750

t:

+44 20 7535 3100

e:

veronica.ochoa at hurleypalmerflatt.com<mailto:veronica.ochoa at hurleypalmerflatt.com>

View company email disclaimer at: http://www.hurleypalmerflatt.com/<http://www.hurleypalmerflatt.com/disclaimer.html>disclaimer<http://www.hurleypalmerflatt.com/disclaimer.html>.html<http://www.hurleypalmerflatt.com/disclaimer.html>

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

From: Jim Dirkes [mailto:jim at buildingperformanceteam.com]
Sent: 13 October 2015 18:18
To: Veronica Ochoa
Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] ASHRAE systems exception B interpretation

Veronica,
This may be worth a question to your LEED / GBCI review team so that you have high confidence before creating the entire model.

I think that the Baseline model should represent a realistic design, something you would expect from a responsible energy-conscious designer. That way the benefits of the Proposed system will also be realistic.

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 12:49 PM, Veronica Ochoa <veronica.ochoa at hurleypalmerflatt.com<mailto:veronica.ochoa at hurleypalmerflatt.com>> wrote:
Jim, thanks for your prompt response.

The average peak load for my systems is as follows:
Level -2: 578 W/m2
Level -1: 392 W/m2
Level 0: 186 W/m2
Level 1: 83 W/m2

Of the rooms in each system only 6 zones are within the 31W/m2 difference, therefore meeting the Sys8 criteria. The rest of the zones differ from the average cooling loads by anything from 50 W/m2 to 1,200 W/m2, leaving 44 zones to fall under the System#4 (B) exception. My question is if I should have Sys#4 created for each zone, therefore ending up with 44 System#4’s which seems a bit excessive and if I could simplify this by creating a system per floor or per different setpoint groups?

Thanks again,

Veronica Ochoa

Consultant

hurleypalmerflatt

building sustainability

d:

+44 20 7535 3750<tel:%2B44%2020%207535%203750>

t:

+44 20 7535 3100<tel:%2B44%2020%207535%203100>

e:

veronica.ochoa at hurleypalmerflatt.com<mailto:veronica.ochoa at hurleypalmerflatt.com>

View company email disclaimer at: http://www.hurleypalmerflatt.com/<http://www.hurleypalmerflatt.com/disclaimer.html>disclaimer<http://www.hurleypalmerflatt.com/disclaimer.html>.html<http://www.hurleypalmerflatt.com/disclaimer.html>

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

From: Jim Dirkes [mailto:jim at buildingperformanceteam.com<mailto:jim at buildingperformanceteam.com>]
Sent: 13 October 2015 17:38
To: Veronica Ochoa
Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] ASHRAE systems exception B interpretation

Veronica,
I'm not sure if I understand your problem, but the exceptions for non-predominant HVAC sytems are based on
"Peak thermal loads that differ by xx W/m2 or more from the average of other spaces..."

Thus, if all zones are 30 W/m2, they should be modeled with the normal Baseline HVAC.  If, however, one or more zones is 15W/m2 or 50 W/m2, you have justification for using Systems #3 or #4.

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Veronica Ochoa <veronica.ochoa at hurleypalmerflatt.com<mailto:veronica.ochoa at hurleypalmerflatt.com>> wrote:
Hi,

I’m modelling a data center with 50 thermal zones for LEED EAp2/c1 purposes. The baseline system determined based on area and building type is system 8. However when doing the load deviation average to determine suitability for System 4 (under exception B), all but 6 zones are greater than the 31 W/m2 of the averaged cooling load per system/floor. This means that I will have 6 zones (2.5% of total area) as system 8 and 44 zones as system 4. Do I need to follow the exception that says that each zone served by System 4 should be modelled as one zone per system?? I find this a bit too much… I was wondering if you can simplify this by grouping similar spacetypes by setpoints or floors and reduce the number of systems.

Also, in the preliminary submission 100% of the zones were submitted as system 4, but this was noted by the USGBC reviewer as an error (as it was based on the average of the entire building not per system). As it has been now corrected and only 2.5% of the zones will be system 8, we are estimating the difference will be negligible. Would a narrative explaining this suffice? Has anyone been in this situation and how did you approach it?

Many thanks in advance for your help,

Veronica Ochoa

Consultant

hurleypalmerflatt

building sustainability

d:

+44 20 7535 3750<tel:%2B44%2020%207535%203750>

t:

+44 20 7535 3100<tel:%2B44%2020%207535%203100>

e:

veronica.ochoa at hurleypalmerflatt.com<mailto:veronica.ochoa at hurleypalmerflatt.com>

[cid:image001.jpg at 01D105E4.9E7BA240]<https://retrofit.architectsjournal.co.uk/shortlist-2015>
[cid:image002.jpg at 01D105E4.9E7BA240]<http://www.hurleypalmerflatt.com/> [cid:image002.jpg at 01D105E4.9E7BA240] <https://uk.linkedin.com/company/hurleypalmerflatt>  [cid:image002.jpg at 01D105E4.9E7BA240] <https://twitter.com/hpf_group>  [cid:image002.jpg at 01D105E4.9E7BA240] <https://plus.google.com/105591062940781402373>  [cid:image002.jpg at 01D105E4.9E7BA240] <https://www.flickr.com/photos/127827710@N02/>  [cid:image002.jpg at 01D105E4.9E7BA240] <https://www.facebook.com/hurley.palmer.flatt?ref=hl>  [cid:image002.jpg at 01D105E4.9E7BA240] <http://www.youtube.com/user/hurleypalmerflatt>

View company email disclaimer at: http://www.hurleypalmerflatt.com/<http://www.hurleypalmerflatt.com/disclaimer.html>disclaimer<http://www.hurleypalmerflatt.com/disclaimer.html>.html<http://www.hurleypalmerflatt.com/disclaimer.html>

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

_______________________________________________
Bldg-sim mailing list
http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG<mailto:BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG>

--
James V Dirkes II, PE, BEMP, LEED AP
CEO/President
The Building Performance Team Inc.
1631 Acacia Dr, GR, Mi 49504

Direct: 616.450.8653<tel:616.450.8653>
jim at buildingperformanceteam.com<mailto:jim at buildingperformanceteam.com>

Website <http://buildingperformanceteamcom> l  LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jim-dirkes/7/444/413>

“…happiness is the joy produced in us by truth. To be truly happy means coming to know how things really are, experiencing …reality in its ultimate root…
What matters more to one’s happiness than getting more freedom and power is the end toward which we order whatever freedom and power we have. Unless we order ourselves to the truth, more freedom and more power will bring only more unhappiness, examples of which abound.

--
James V Dirkes II, PE, BEMP, LEED AP
CEO/President
The Building Performance Team Inc.
1631 Acacia Dr, GR, Mi 49504

Direct: 616.450.8653
jim at buildingperformanceteam.com<mailto:jim at buildingperformanceteam.com>

Website <http://buildingperformanceteamcom> l  LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jim-dirkes/7/444/413>

“…happiness is the joy produced in us by truth. To be truly happy means coming to know how things really are, experiencing …reality in its ultimate root…
What matters more to one’s happiness than getting more freedom and power is the end toward which we order whatever freedom and power we have. Unless we order ourselves to the truth, more freedom and more power will bring only more unhappiness, examples of which abound.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20151013/2f6c57c3/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1175 bytes
Desc: image001.jpg
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20151013/2f6c57c3/attachment-0006.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image002.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 344 bytes
Desc: image002.jpg
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20151013/2f6c57c3/attachment-0007.jpg>