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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I think you are confusing the ARI standard rating conditions which
are climate independent and your project specific design conditions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Additionally there are requirements in Appendix G for reset, so
the reference building chiller will not always operate at standard conditions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Paul Riemer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Matutinovic,
Luka<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 04, 2009 12:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org; bldg-rate@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] Modelling chillers at non-standard operating
conditions as per Appendix G<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Univers","sans-serif";color:blue'>Thanks to Linda and Bill for
helping me out with this issue. As far as App G is concerned, there is a
specific set of condenser and chiller temperatures and condenser flows that
must be used in the reference building that represent ARI standard conditions
for which the COP is 6.1 (for centrifugal chillers > 300 tons).
Therefore the reference building always operates at standard conditions, while
the proposed building's performance varies depending on specific operating
conditions.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Univers","sans-serif";color:blue'>While this is tantamount to
asking someone to model the proposed building with a Chicago weather file,
compare it to a reference building with a Miami weather file and require
you to reduce cooling use, the rules are at present clear.
Unreasonable, but clear.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Univers","sans-serif";color:blue'>So, my question to the
design/simulation community is this: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Univers","sans-serif";color:blue'>Has anyone been able to spec a
large centrifugal chiller (900-1500 tons) with a full load COP matching or at
least approaching 6.1, for a Zone 1 climate? (Specifically my design
conditions are 122F db, 86F wb, 42/57F CHW, 95/105 CW) If so, if you
could please post the spec sheet that would be fantastic. Unfortunately
the manufacturers don't post this kind of performance data so a call to
the local rep is needed to produce project specific data.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Univers","sans-serif";color:blue'>Many thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='color:blue'>Luka Matutinovic, </span></b><span
style='color:blue'>B.A.Sc., LEED<sup>®</sup> AP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><em><span style='color:blue'>Green Building Consultant</span></em><i><span
style='color:blue'><br>
<em> </em><br>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Matutinovic, Luka <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 02, 2009 7:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org; 'bldg-rate@lists.onebuilding.org'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Modelling chillers at non-standard operating conditions as per
Appendix G</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Univers","sans-serif"'>Hello All,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Univers","sans-serif"'>I have a question regarding the minimum
centrifugal chiller efficiencies for conditions not covered by ASHRAE 90.1-2004
section 6.4.1.2. Specifically, I'm trying to model a chiller for a
building in a hot humid climate. The specified operating
conditions for the condenser EWT are 95ºF (35ºC), which is
beyond the range of conditions covered by ASHRAE.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Univers","sans-serif"'>In this case, what should I use for the
minimum chiller efficiency in my reference building? Do I still have to
follow Appendix G section G3.1.3.11 which states that my condenser supply
temp shall be the lower of 84ºF (29ºC) or 10ºF (5.6ºC) approach to
design wet-bulb. The wet-bulb in this climate
is 86ºF (30ºC), so the 10ºF approach is therefore 96ºF, which means
my condenser supply temp (EWT) shall be 84ºF (29ºC), the lower of the
two. At this condenser EWT, the minimum ASHRAE efficiencies from Table
6.8.1J vary depending on condenser flow. Since condenser flow is not
specified by Appendix G, should I simply used the Kadj equations at the bottom
of that table? If that's the case, the condenser DT is 15ºF (8ºC) and the
Lift is 41ºF (22.7ºC) and I arrive at an adjustment factor Kadj of 0.88.
Applied to my standard COP of 6.1, I get a COP of 5.4. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Univers","sans-serif"'>My issue with this approach is that this
COP is very difficult to achieve at our operating conditions. In my
opinion, this is an unfair comparison for chillers in very hot humid climates
since Appendix G is prescribing operating conditions which are considerably
more "temperate" than the extreme conditions under which our chillers
will operate. We can realistically achieve a COP of 5.1. In this
climate, cooling is a dominant load, yet due to Appendix G "rules",
it will be very difficult to meet the LEED energy prerequisite, since our
chiller are worse than reference.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Univers","sans-serif"'>Finally, I'm assuming that since ASHRAE
does not cover this operating range, I don't have to worry about meeting the
mandatory provisions for efficiency listed in Tables 6.8.1H, I and J in my
proposed building, ie there is no minimum chiller efficiency for this range.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Univers","sans-serif"'>Any help in this matter would be much
appreciated. If I've missed something in my calculations or wasn't clear
enough, please let me know because this issue is a big concern to our project.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Univers","sans-serif"'>Many thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><b>Luka Matutinovic, </b>B.A.Sc., LEED<sup>®</sup> AP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><em>Green Building Consultant</em><i><br>
<em> </em><br>
</i>T. 416.487.5257 ext. 317 <br>
F. 416.487.9766 <br>
Toll Free 1.888.425.7255<br>
www.halsall.com <br>
<br>
<b>HALSALL ASSOCIATES LTD. <br>
</b><ns0:City>Toronto</ns0:City> <ns0:City>Richmond Hill</ns0:City>
<ns0:City>Ottawa</ns0:City> <ns0:City>Sudbury</ns0:City> <br>
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