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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Seth, Sam, and Eric, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thank you for weighing in. I should not have used the word
'plant'. So please allow me to restate my question. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I know the Step 2 baseline boilers are on-site, but <b>what fuel
type and what efficiency</b>?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Appendix G prohibits fuel switching and I cannot find anything in
the DES guide that counters that, so on one hand I think I need the same fuel
type which means options A or B.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If I chose option A, I have no savings potential and just distribution
losses so no heating side reason to do Step 2.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If I chose option B, I am choosing a code efficiency for a
natural draft coal/trash fired hot water boiler. A piece of equipment so
far outside the mainstream, I assert that any statement of code efficiency is
arbitrary.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Appendix G also requires me to use a boiler efficiency from Ch 6,
so on the other hand, I want to choose gas so I can get a code efficiency which
is option C.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If I choose option C, the savings will be strongly dependent on
the modeled price differential between coal/trash and natural gas. This is
the savings projects really achieve and why they use coal/trash fired district
plants.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The difference between these options may well be the maximum
allowed differential of 4 EAc1 points.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I eagerly anticipate any other responses and the forthcoming DES
Guide. (Did I miss the public comment period?)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Paul Riemer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Seth P. Spangler [mailto:sspangle@rmf.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 06, 2009 12:46 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Riemer; bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Bldg-sim] District Thermal Energy in LEED<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>In the Step 2 model for the baseline, you DON’T use the same
district energy system used in the proposed. Instead, you use on-site
boilers of the type specified in ASHRAE 90.1 Tables G3.1.1A and Tables G3.1.1B.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Interestingly enough, this is a contradiction from what is stated
in paragraph G3.1.1.1 of 90.1, but USGBC has clarified their intention in soon
to be released updates of the DES Guide. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";
color:blue'>Seth Spangler, LEED® AP <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";
color:blue'>Design Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";
color:blue'>RMF Engineering, Inc <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";
color:blue'>Ph: (843) 971-9639 ext:1497</span><span style='color:blue'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";
color:blue'>Fax: (843) 971-9641 <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";
color:blue'>sspangle@rmf.com</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Georgia","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Riemer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 05, 2009 4:12 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org; bldg-rate@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Bldg-sim] District Thermal Energy in LEED</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Fellow Modelers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I would greatly appreciate any answers and comments on
formulating a submission and/or CIR.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I am working on a LEED project which is heated by steam from a
coal fired plant and is subject to the USGBC's District Thermal Energy document
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a
href="https://www.usgbc.org/ShowFile.aspx?DocumentID=4176">https://www.usgbc.org/ShowFile.aspx?DocumentID=4176</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Should the baseline hot water boiler plant in the Step 2
analysis be:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>A) a coal fired boiler with the proposed boiler efficiency since
90.1 does not address coal fired boilers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>B) a natural draft coal fired hot water boiler with an assumed
code efficiency since 90.1 does not address coal fired boilers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>C) a natural draft gas fired hot water boiler with the code
efficiency referenced in 90.1, or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>D) something else?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Remember the metric is energy cost savings.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If you reread it, replacing the word 'coal' with 'trash', does
your answer change?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thank you,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Paul Riemer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Dunham<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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