[Bldg-rate] [Bldg-sim] CO2 sensors and outside air reduction. LEED forschools &ASHRAE 90.1-2004

Matutinovic, Luka LMatutinovic at halsall.com
Wed Jan 14 10:16:50 PST 2009


James,
I disagree with the claim that R-value has little effect. Look at the number of all-glass buildings in northern climate, and I'll bet they barely meet LEED or ASHRAE energy pre-reqs.  
 
However, there is definitely a law of diminishing return at work. That is, after a certain R-value, additional insulation has very little effect. The curve of R-value vs. energy savings flatlines.  In our case in Toronto, this happens beyond R-20 walls and R-30 roofs typically.
 
The other thing to keep in mind is the type of building.  Offices are very much dependant on skin losses, but hospitals for example are dominated by ventilation loads and envelope losses are almost insignificant by comparison.
 
As for your question on CO2 control, our experince has shown that you need a very fine resulution to get any benefit.  That is for a mixed-air system, you typically need one sensor per box/damper, so that you're not over-ventilating the rest as you pointed out.  But mixed-air system are bad anyway so CO2 control is a marginal improvement.  You get the most bang if you de-couple the ventilation from the heating/cooling by using compartmental system such as fan-coils or distributed heat-pumps.  Why these systems aren't more popular in our market is beyond me...
 
 
Luka Matutinovic, B.A.Sc., LEED AP
Halsall Associates Ltd.

________________________________

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org on behalf of James Geers
Sent: Wed 14/01/2009 1:09 PM
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Cc: bldg-rate at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Bldg-sim] CO2 sensors and outside air reduction. LEED forschools &ASHRAE 90.1-2004



 

Previous posts have confirmed my suspicions that increasing the R-value of walls and roofs has little to no effect on energy performance, due to the outside air requirements.  

 

This raises a few questions:

 

1.   What is the most effective way to use CO2 sensors to dramatically reduce the outside air requirements?

 

2.	Is it permissible to vary the CFM between the base case and design case in the ASHRAE 90.1-2004 Appendix G model, and consequently in the LEED template? 

 

3.	What is the most effective way to use CO2 monitoring in a building with 40 classrooms and other large spaces.  If one sensor is triggered, won't the entire zone get fresh air and defeat the energy savings? 

 

4.	If every classroom has a sensor, does any one have experience with the replaceable / Mail in sensors to assure their accuracy. 

 

5.	If I model this in Equest, do I need a zone for every classroom. 

 

Thank you for any feed back.

 

James F. Geers

Registered Architect

LEED Accredited Professional

 

SFA Architects

300 West Fourth Street

Cincinnati, Ohio 45202

513.721.0600    

513.721.0611 (fax)

 

James F. Geers

Registered Architect

LEED Accredited Professional

 

SFA Architects

300 West Fourth Street

Cincinnati, Ohio 45202

513.721.0600    

513.721.0611 (fax)

 

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