[Equest-users] Simulation with Baseline model, Thanks for Your Advice. I am unable to figure it out.

[Pasha Korber-Gonzalez]

Oh---in some cases (when my inner-enginerd really comes out) I have actually
set up two laptops side by side, labeled with sticky notes on each one to
remind me which computer is running the baseline file and which one is
running the proposed file.  This way I can run both models side by
side---again, as long as I can manage my inputs appropriately without
'cross-inputing' data in the wrong file.

pkg

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Pasha Korber-Gonzalez <
pasha.pkconsulting at gmail.com> wrote:

> My approach (when doing LEED/ASHRAE 90.1 compliance models) varies with
> using one model file (one .pd2 file only) or using 2 model files (two .pd2
> files) depending on what my proposed and baseline HVAC systems are.
>
> For example, if the Appendix G baseline HVAC system is #7 (VAV with chilled
> water) and my proposed design systems are VAV with geothermal I choose to
> set up two different model files (two different .pd2 files.)    My actual
> approach would be this:
>
>    1. create my proposed design model file in the wizard to nail down
>    specific building footprint shape, custom zoning, custom windows, (and a few
>    more specified inputs that are applied across the whole model.)  Then
>    I "SAVE AS" a copy with the key word "Wiz" somewhere in the title.
>    2. With my new "SAVE AS" copy of my wizard file I rename it with
>    "ddedit" somewhere in the file name.  I then switch to ddedit mode and
>    continue - until I'm finished creating my entire *proposed design model
>    file*.   I run the simulation a few times to at least make sure that I
>    have a clean sim file (i.e. no errors.)
>    3. I now do a "SAVE AS" again on my ddedit file and name the new copy
>    "xxx-projectname-ddedit BASELINE" so that this new file is reflected as my
>    ASHRAE 90.1 equivalent sim file.   I go in and 'turn down' my proposed
>    performance numbers to be equal to Appendix G baseline requirements.  Keep
>    in mind that in this example I have set up a VAV with geothermal system in
>    the proposed, therefore; I now have to change the plant & air-side inputs to
>    reflect the requirements for the App G baseline system 7 thus removing the
>    geothermal system components and setting up a standard chiller & boiler
>    plant system to serve a standard VAV air-side systems in my baseline model
>    file.
>    4. Sim note:  this is Pasha's approach because it is easiest for me to
>    manage my inputs most efficiently.  Other simulators will have thier own
>    style and the key is in how you manage your input data and many variables to
>    produce the correct simulations.  The system changes can be made in the
>    Parametric Tool within your first .pd2 file, but for Pasha this type of
>    variable management can get confusing sometimes and I choose to take a few
>    extra input steps in order for me to manage my inputs best.
>    5. After I have two .pd2 files (proposed & ASHRAE baseline) and I know
>    that both files are clean (free of errors) I can now continue with my
>    engineering analysis of the sim results.  Once the baseline file results are
>    normalized close to realistic expectations from reference data for the
>    building type I am working on, then I can finish tweaking anything in my
>    proposed file to ensure that I am showing a realistic amount of energy
>    savings (given the ECM's that are applied against the baseline model.)
>    6. Final quality checks are then performed (i.e. reduced hours outside
>    of throttling range, etc.)  until I am to a point where I am satisfied with
>    the sim results of both files.  Now I can report my sim results to the
>    client, design team, and/or LEED documentation if we are ready for submittal
>    documents to be completed.
>
>
> This is just my personal approach, I think its in line with how many other
> simulators approach thier projects.  Just note that if for some reason I
> 'get lucky' on a project where the proposed design HVAC systems are exactly
> the same as the App G baseline HVAC system then I don't really have to work
> in 2 different .pd2 files because it is the case that my HVAC
> systems components are already setup correctly I can just work within one
> .pd2 file and make ECM adjustments via the parametric tool only.
>
> Every simulator will develop thier own style of modeling and as long as you
> can manage your inputs and verify your outputs, then let your own style
> work for you.
>
> pkg
>
>   On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 7:42 AM, Martz, Amanda <amartz at klingstubbins.com
> > wrote:
>
>>    The problem is that the difference between the baseline and the
>> proposed isn’t just a difference in system types, there are other factors
>> involved such as minimum flow rates, pump power, fan power, etc. Read
>> appendix G, all of those criteria need to be implemented in the baseline.
>> The proposed model should match your own design. I don’t think all of these
>> changes could be done within the same model.
>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
>> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *tim
>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 22, 2010 9:40 AM
>> *To:* 'Demba Ndiaye'; 'Guoguang Le'; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Simulation with Baseline model,Thanks for
>> Your Advice. I am unable to figure it out.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, and my experiment didn’t work by the way – must be why no comments
>> were made.  I thought it was working but alas the GSHP plant equipment
>> button is greyed after going back into the wizard. so I suppose there is no
>> way to compare LEED baseline with proposed in one eQuest model?
>>
>>
>>
>> It did “appear” to work.  The geothermal had a higher electric usage and
>> way lower gas consumption – this made sense to me since the geothermal would
>> have pumps & more intricate controls and the PSZ would eat up the gas in
>> winter.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyway, now I am planning to have 2 model files and use the EEM wizard to
>> rename the runs appropriately.  I will then have to generate my own
>> comparison reports if I want them I suppose.  Had to find percent
>> improvement on my own anyway.  Attached is a simple spreadsheet showing the
>> comparison.  There may be a template for this, I’m just wandering through
>> the energy simulation forest for the first time so any thoughts/feedback
>> would be appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>> Maybe I need some training…
>>
>>
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
>> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Demba Ndiaye
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 22, 2010 9:17 AM
>> *To:* Guoguang Le; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Simulation with Baseline model, Thanks for
>> Your Advice. I am unable to figure it out.
>>
>>
>>
>> eQuest uses “Baseline” to refer to your base model, with EEMs in mind. The
>> word has actually nothing to do with either 90.1 or T24.
>>
>>
>>
>> For example, if you are doing a LEED model and create two models: one
>> proposed and one LEED baseline. Both will be called “Baseline” by eQuest.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________
>>
>> Demba NDIAYE
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
>> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Guoguang Le
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 21, 2010 10:09 PM
>> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
>> *Subject:* [Equest-users] Simulation with Baseline model, Thanks for Your
>> Advice. I am unable to figure it out.
>>
>>
>>
>> To eQuest Expert,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a question to beg your answer. For an equest model, after I input
>> some data and then run simulation, the report showed "baseline". What does
>> this "baseline" mean? Is it meaning min requirement by Ashrae 90.1, T24,
>> based on what I just input data or something else? In other words, how to
>> run baseline model by using eQuest?
>>
>> I appreciate your time very much! Thanks Lot!!!
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> James Le
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Equest-users mailing list
>> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to
>> EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG
>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/equest-users-onebuilding.org/attachments/20100722/a313b8ee/attachment.htm>